[Tomy2Tone]

A while back I had a chat with a forum member about amps with high watt output vs amps with lesser watts but designed different and still providing excellent bass and slam. Neither one of us understood why an amp that supposedly puts out far less watts could perform just as good if not better than an amp with twice the wattage.

I guess I've always been under the impression that more watts the better when it comes to an amp and would often hear the old " there's no replacement for displacement " when asked why.

I've had some class d amps over the years with often at least 500 watts per channel and recently have had some Crown XLS 1500 amps bridged putting out 1500 watts per channel. Yet when I inserted a Job 225 stereo amp putting out about 180 watts per channel into 4 ohms I got as good dynamics and very comparable if not better bass and slam. Is it just the difference between class d and class a/b?

Does the overall design philosophy of an amp trump high wattage capability? I think this is what I'm trying to ask...

Any comments or thoughts is appreciated and any informational links is a plus!

Thanks!

[FullRangeMan]

In my experience more powerfull amps have alot of parts and less music details than a small amp, not mention price.
With small amps should be used hi sensitivity speakers, preferably without xover for full harmonics content.

More is better in the case of the sensitivity of the loudspeakers.
You will notice there is a lot of people saying monster amps are better than the small ones.

[borism]

Dick Olsher from Absolute Sound is credited with saying something like "if you don't like the first watt, why would you want 100 more?" I believe this led Nelson Pass to name his low wattage line of amplifiers "The First Watt".
So, quality is equally if not more important than quantity.

[Audiovista]

Dick Olsher from Absolute Sound is credited with saying something like "if you don't like the first watt, why would you want 100 more?" I believe this led Nelson Pass to name his low wattage line of amplifiers "The First Watt".
So, quality is equally if not more important than quantity.

Nicely said! I like my 0.5W amplifier almost as much as the other one which is a whopping 3.5W 

[borism]

From one Boris to another!

[FullRangeMan]

At Decware site there is:
If the first Watt sucks why continue!

Gizmo used to say tube amps above 10W have less sound quality(than a less powerful) due need for more parts everywhere.

[Guy 13]

At Decware site there is:
If the first Watt sucks why continue!

Hi FullRangeMan,
I have a Decware SE84C+ with only two watts
and I can tell you that the first watts don't sucks and the same for the second watt at all.
Both of them drive beautifully the Omega 7F Open Baffle Dipole. 
Of course if I had 6 watts from the SE34 it would give to my system more dynamics,
but for now I have no reason to complain.

Guy 13
 

[Audiovista]

From one Boris to another!

Isn't that cool 

[Devil Doc]

"There's no substitute for displacement". Don Garlits
...or watts.
Doc

[borism]

"There's no substitute for displacement". Don Garlits
...or watts.
Doc

... or a Porsche!

[FullRangeMan]

"There's no substitute for displacement". Don Garlits
...or watts.
Doc

I agree, there is no subs for many Watts, its very useful in some app as pro-audio, sound reinforcement, car audio, PA etc

[Early B.]

A friend of mine had an 18-watt Decware tube amp. I brought my 300-watt SS amp over his house and my amp was clearly superior. The Decware sounded anemic by comparison. This reaffirmed my thought that more power is better. 

[FullRangeMan]

What was the loudspeaker and the music listening?

[Early B.]

What was the loudspeaker and the music listening?

Devore monitor speakers. I don't recall the model. We were listening to jazz. The music doesn't matter, though. The more powerful amp simply had much more control of the speakers.

[FullRangeMan]

Devore monitor speakers. I don't recall the model. We were listening to jazz. The music doesn't matter, though. The more powerful amp simply had much more control of the speakers.

Maybe the speaker was low sensitivity(under 96dB) or low impedance(4 ohms).
Anyway interesting, I would like see this test.

[Blu99Zoomer]

I have never driven a fuel dragster, but I have driven the Porsche.  I have listened to a pair of 500 watt A/B solid state mono blocks and I have listened to a 10 battery powered RWA amp.  I would like to listen to a 10 watt Nelson Pass and any high quality high or low power amp.  It is amazing that with just a few parts nice, enjoyable music can be made.  But I know that it's the system and not just the amp that gets the job done.  I wouldn't pair that 0.5w amp with a big set of Maggies.  Listening to Melody Gardot's newest project is not the same as listening to Sam Smith's newest either.  I like both.  But thank goodness for the differences. 

So I guess my point is someone can build a simple circuited, low power amp and another can build a more complex one.  The ingredients in the sauce and how they're put together in both boxes matter.  Whether it's an amp, a song, a sound system, a dragster...The cook, persistence and commitment to the goal, and blind luck matter.  Then there's the question of our ears and the rugs on the floor and so on.  But that's for another topic.  Thanks Tommy2tone for the original post.

Thanks for the enjoyable comments.  Keep up the good work.

Blu99Zoomer

[woodsyi]

This is silly discussing wattage that is not applicable to Salk SoundScape 8s that OP has.  I don't care how good your first watt is.  1 watt ain't going to cut it here. 

As for Class D vs A or AB, really it's synergy.  You need enough to cover transient peaks and you need enough damping power to control the woofers.  Once you have that, the rest is finding something that suits your taste for the way you listen to music you like. 

There is no universal solution.  There will always be a tradeoff among tonality, dynamics, clarity and presentation as in sound stage.  You have to choose what you like.  The more you zero in on one characteristic, you will end up giving up on other traits. 

For a tonality junkie that I am, I prefer class A and tubes for the mids and highs.  Class D for bass. 
But that's me. 

[Tomy2Tone]

What about current delivery?

A pair of Wyred 4 Sound sx500 monoblocks have 35a of current but put out 250 watts into 8ohms. An Odyssey Khartago monoblock has 120a of current and puts out 110 watts. Should there be a big difference in performance in regards to watt output or does the extra current in the Khartago create a different dynamic?

Maybe another way to pose this, is watt output the final say on how an amp handles a speaker or does other factors like current and bandwidth help determine it as well?

[Folsom]

Perception.

Bose plays on this, their crap sounds like it has big bass but doesn't shake anything 

Compare the Job to the XLS with a DB meter and the XLS might still be winning. However amplifiers sometimes have to dump current into various reactive loads (crossovers) more than others, which gobbles up power like crazy.

Sometimes the sound is just so convincing, you don't notice the difference in SPL, so low powered amps might sound splendid. But also while we often think bass will have the highest peaks, it isn't always so. I've got a CD where some snare snapping will use 250w on a stereo it was tested with, but otherwise was playing 1-2w.

Your speakers are 87db efficient. They aren't considered high efficiency, but I can tell you a very good quality 15-25w amp that doesn't sink current into the crossover reactance, is going to give you some good listening levels. However with crest factor it might not hit some of the extremes - whether you can tell or not.

[Early B.]

There are practical reasons for getting a higher powered amp. For instance, the vast majority of speakers have a sensitivity of less than 96dB, so speaker options are vastly limited if high sensitivity speakers are what you're into. For those of us who are budget-conscious, the list of options for high sensitivity speakers gets even smaller. 

My current speakers have a sensitivity of around 95dB. I've got tons more power on demand than I need to drive them, and that's precisely the point.