[ctviggen]

Rumblings now that Windows 10 support will be free for two years only. Can Microsoft figure out yet another way to screw up. Their acquisitions of Skype and Nokia were brilliant failures, now they plan to start charging consumers for security patches?????

If true, it will be EASY pickings for Apple...

I love my Nokia phone, and like Microsoft's operating system better than the Android (and I personally can't stand Microsoft).  For me, the operating system makes much more sense than the Android system.

Having said that, I think Microsoft is a bad company with respect to how they're handling these decisions.  They got behind in the phone market and now are having a difficult time catching up, but they're not doing a great job trying to catch up.  They simply don't know what they're doing half the time (witness Windows 8; I've purchased three computers since Windows 8 came out and bought them ALL with Windows 7).  I'm also a curmudgeon, though -- I avoid the "cloud", refuse to "rent" my software, etc.

[asliarun]

Found it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/10/free-windows-10-charges/

Too bad the Linux community can't get it's act together and create a consumer version of Linux that could be a real alternative to Windows and OSX for the common person.

To be honest, this (the linked article) just comes across as scare mongering, or someone speculating with a hidden agenda or bias.

There is zero evidence that Microsoft will start charging for Windows 10 after a year, couple of years, or whatever. They have never done this in the past either.

If the "basis" of the argument is "how can Microsoft afford to give this upgrade for free" - then remember, they already offer Windows 8.1 Bing edition for free to manufacturers. The only thing different about this free edition is that t comes with Bing as the default search engine. And even this default setting can be changed in a few seconds.

For what it is worth, I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8 for essentially little to no money. I've never had to pay an extra dime for additional services and have not got stuck with a hobbled OS either. Apple used to charge for all OS upgrades too, and now their OS upgrades are free.

The reason why MSFT wants to upgrade everyone to Windows 10 is because they know (like Apple and Google knows) that long term, money is to be made from services and user data. Product based revenues are a thing of the past. People are too used to the Android model of "free". And more than anything, they want to keep you inside their pretty little walled garden. Their app store, their ecosystem, their programming languages.

Microsoft's challenge today is not loss of revenue from Windows 10 upgrade or whatever. It is the fact that they neglected their ecosystem for too long, and are now deathly afraid of the large scale defection happening due to people moving over to the Apple and Google ecosystem. Heck, they would pay money to users if they have to (in other industries, "user acquisition cost" is a very real thing, often to the tune of tens to hundreds of dollars per user).

At any rate, most of the money they will make is not even from upgrades - it will be from OEMs who will sell new laptops to consumers and to enterprise users.

[FullRangeMan]

This free W10 offer could have something to do w/forcing IP V6?

[tx2sturgis]

Taking Win10 for a test drive....

[FullRangeMan]

How works the File Explorer?

[tx2sturgis]

Pretty much identical to win7...





(i never used win 8 so I cant make a comparison)

[FullRangeMan]

Thanks for inform and upload the image.
I ditto W8, but it pretty similar to W7.

[srb]

One feature of Windows 10 that I really don't like is the default automatic forced update of drivers.

Although you can manually defer an automatic restart after installation, you still are still ultimately forced to update to a driver that may or may not work properly.  In my case, Windows 10 wants to update my Intel HD 4000 graphics driver, and in doing so the new driver does not allow brightness setting to be adjusted or go into sleep mode.  I have also run into automatic updates for Ethernet network cards that have resulted in loss of network connectivity.

You can manually roll back a driver or install an older driver in Device Manager, but Windows 10 will just automatically download the new driver and install it again.

You can disable automatic driver updates by Windows Update in Control Panel > System > Advanced System Settings > Hardware tab > Device Installation Settings (which is what I did) but that does disable all driver updates across the board and cannot be individually set for each hardware device.

Steve

[GentleBender]

One feature of Windows 10 that I really don't like is the default automatic forced update of drivers.

Unfortunately this feature will probably help most users that aren't technical enough to keep things up to date. But if MS doesn't do a good job of testing drivers first, people will start to hate Windows 10. I recently had someone show up to do a presentation on our projector at work that had upgraded their laptop to Windows 10 themselves. When I hooked the laptop's HDMI into the projector I found that the generic graphics driver that Windows installed didn't support HDMI. Most people don't know how to check to be sure the right drivers are installed. Made me wonder if Windows 10 is going to be the positive shot in the arm Microsoft needs. 

You can disable automatic driver updates by Windows Update in Control Panel > System > Advanced System Settings > Hardware tab > Device Installation Settings (which is what I did) but that does disable all driver updates across the board and cannot be individually set for each hardware device.

Steve

At least we can prevent MS from ruining a perfectly working machine after getting everything setup. Can you disable the updates by only installing "critical" updates?

[srb]

Unfortunately this feature will probably help most users that aren't technical enough to keep things up to date. But if MS doesn't do a good job of testing drivers first, people will start to hate Windows 10.

It will probably help the majority of users, but drivers can be finicky and behave differently on different platforms, motherboards and chipsets.  In this case, while this driver update worked fine on an HP i7 laptop with integrated Intel HD 4000 graphics, it crippled my Lenovo i5 laptop with the same HD 4000 integrated graphics.  There are only so many configurations that MS can realistically test.

Can you disable the updates by only installing "critical" updates?

Windows 7 allowed you to disable the installation of "Recommended" updates and automatically only install "Important" updates, but no such settings exist for Windows 10 Update.  The only advanced settings I can find are to (a) deselect the automatic updates for "other Microsoft products" and (b) deselect the sharing of your downloaded updates with anonymous PCs on the Internet (BitTorrent-like).

The only way I have found so far to disable automatic driver updates is by the global setting I mentioned previously.

Steve

[vinyl_guy]

Taking Win10 for a test drive....

I absolutely hate the look of this screen shot. I have deleted every W10 "free" offer (they seem to come weekly) primarily because I am set in my ways when it comes to using computers. I resisted Office 2010 for a long time because I hated (and still do) the Ribbon. Then I found I could do a command bar like in Office 2003/2007 and hide the Ribbon and all was well again in Laura's computer world. I don't have the time or the patience to adjust to a new look of the Desktop or the various file screens. I would like faster boot times, but not at the expense of having adjust to the new looks I am seeing in this thread. I resisted W7 until they stopped supporting XP and then I made the change. I'll probably stick with W7 until they force the change and hopefully I'll be retired by then and my computer use will be pretty much limited to email and internet.

[FullRangeMan]

Yesterday I talk to a guy at the grocerie, he update W8 to W10 and said had received a W10 plain basic version!!
Not Pro, the bit size processing I dont know.

Anyone that had received the W10 could inform about it?

[srb]

My understanding, and in my experience, the upgrade will upgrade to the same edition and and bit level.

If you have Windows 8 Home the upgrade is to Windows 10 Home.  If you have Windows 8 Pro, the upgrade is to Windows 10 Pro.  32-bit or 64-bit editions will be upgraded to the same bit level.

Once you've upgraded it may be possible to upgrade a 32-bit edition to a 64-bit edition (if your processor and chipset supports it) by downloading the Microsoft Media Creation Tool, creating bootable media and performing a clean install.  The tool will ask you whether you want to create 32-bit or 64-bit installation media.

Steve

[Phil A]

My main PC is Windows 7 Pro and in October it will be 5 years old.  I run a bunch of programs and already thinking about a new PC (I have an old XP machine not connected to the internet and a Mac G5 Tower in the bedroom of around the same vintage and they both show their age on certain things) before the end of this year and I have no plans to upgrade it.  I removed the Windows 10 pop-up.

On my two HAL Windows music servers, I upgraded my 8.1 to 10.  No major big deal.  I only use a couple of programs, JRiver and Room EQ Wizard.

By the time they stop supporting Windows 7 (in 3.5 years), I'll have long since gotten a more up-to-date PC.  I plan to use the Windows 7 machine in the bedroom.  When support ends, I can then decide what I want to do.  My understanding is that Windows 8 will be supported for 3 additional years vs. Windows 7.  So I can then decide, depending on factors, what to do going forward.  So for those who plan to get a new PC within 4 years, you may just wish to leave things alone if you are happy with the current OS.

[srb]

Microsoft Windows Lifecycle Fact Sheet

 


Steve

[Phil A]

Thanks for the detailed info.  Makes getting that Windows 10 PC sometime in the near future easy seeing how long it will be supported.

[ctviggen]

I absolutely hate the look of this screen shot. I have deleted every W10 "free" offer (they seem to come weekly) primarily because I am set in my ways when it comes to using computers. I resisted Office 2010 for a long time because I hated (and still do) the Ribbon. Then I found I could do a command bar like in Office 2003/2007 and hide the Ribbon and all was well again in Laura's computer world. I don't have the time or the patience to adjust to a new look of the Desktop or the various file screens. I would like faster boot times, but not at the expense of having adjust to the new looks I am seeing in this thread. I resisted W7 until they stopped supporting XP and then I made the change. I'll probably stick with W7 until they force the change and hopefully I'll be retired by then and my computer use will be pretty much limited to email and internet.

The good thing about that is you only get that particular screen if you want it.  I see it when I shutdown, otherwise, I never see it.

Does anyone else think Microsoft is a horribly run company that just stumbled onto Windows and Office and otherwise makes terrible decisions?  Windows 8 was absolutely horrible.  I couldn't figure out how to use it, and I've been using Windows since 3.1.  Then they bought Nokia's phone business, but never did anything with it. I have a Nokia smartphone with Windows and I think it's great.  But there's no support for it, and now even Microsoft is getting out of that business.  Yet, the whole point of Windows 10 (and the reason they keep pestering us to upgrade) is because Windows 10 supports "write once, run anywhere", which means the same code can be used for a computer, a phone, a tablet, etc.  But if they don't have phones or tablets, what good is that?  And I'm struggling to figure out what good it is anyway, as many apps I use on my phone, I don't use on my computer (and vice versa).  I personally think Microsoft won't be around too much longer.  I'm thinking of transferring my computers to Linux and -- heaven forbid! since I think Apple is another horrible company for different reasons -- to Macs.

[Phil A]

I am not sure of the exact date of the below but Windows has about 85% of the Market share.  Windows 10 at this point is just over 17%.  The use of OS is driven by what is used in business.  Since Windows is more open as far as third party developers, and, therefore has lots of software, unfortunately, it is going to be with us for a long while like it or not.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

[WGH]

Goodby to my trusty, dependable, 18 year old HP Deskjet 722C printer - Hello Windows 10!

It's getting close to 1 month before the free Windows 10 upgrade goes away so it was time to give the new OS a spin, I like it. Definitely quicker than Windows 7 and all my existing programs work too, even two of my favorite free programs - Printkey2000 v.5.10 (1999) and Twofer (1998).

The only fatality was the Deskjet 722C. The newest drivers (2006) didn't work, no surprise there. I needed ink anyway and the paper feed gears were beginning to stutter so it was probably time.

For all practical purposes it looks and works the same as Windows 7 so if you are on the fence, go for it. You have 30 days to roll back to your previous OS if it doesn't work out. The entire upgrade took a little over an hour (after the prep).

Here are a few tips to make everything go smoothly:

1. Download and run the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool - use it to install or reinstall Windows 10 using a USB or DVD.
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10/
2. Run Windows Update to make sure everything is up to date
3. Type CMD into the Start search window to get a command prompt, in the new window type "cleanmgr" without the quotes. Clean your "C" drive.
4. Use the free CC cleaner to clean the registry only, the other parts clean way too aggressive for me, I want my cookies and other stuff.
    https://www.piriform.com/
5. Download the free Paragon Backup and Recovery and image your C drive to a separate backup drive, don't forget to make a boot disk.
    https://www.paragon-software.com/home/br-free/

6. Do a reboot
7. Put in the Windows 10 disk you made and upgrade
8. Uncheck everything in the 3 setup pages when asked, you can enable them later if you want
9. Turn off the spy's - http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-download-install-tips-tricks/
10. Have a beer.

Wayne

[charmerci]

Here are a few tips to make everything go smoothly:

1. Download and run the Windows 10 Media Creation Tool - use it to install or reinstall Windows 10 using a USB or DVD.
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10/
2. Run Windows Update to make sure everything is up to date
3. Type CMD into the Start search window to get a command prompt, in the new window type "cleanmgr" without the quotes. Clean your "C" drive.
4. Use the free CC cleaner to clean the registry only, the other parts clean way too aggressive for me, I want my cookies and other stuff.
    https://www.piriform.com/
5. Download the free Paragon Backup and Recovery and image your C drive to a separate backup drive, don't forget to make a boot disk.
    https://www.paragon-software.com/home/br-free/
6. Do a reboot
7. Put in the Windows 10 disk you made and upgrade
8. Uncheck everything in the 3 setup pages when asked, you can enable them later if you want
9. Turn off the spy's - http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-download-install-tips-tricks/
10. Have a beer.

Wayne

I just bought a new laptop so I'll just do #10, thank you.