[ooheadsoo]

There's an insulation warehouse very close to my place where you can get fiberglass.  I didn't call every place in LA, but I did call about 30 shops with insulation related names and these guys are it.  I got my panels there.

CWCI INSULATION OF L A
749 9TH AVE, HACIENDA HEIGHTS, CA 91745
Phone: (626) 369-4424

It's close to the 60 and 605.

ooheadsoo,

Thanks for the info!!!!  Saves me a TON of time calling around.  I'll give them a call.

No problem  If you get a chance to ask them, I'd love to know if they have that rigid fiberglass tube stuff.

[JoshK]

here's how I treated my room...

[John Casler]

Josh:  Now "that" is pretty rough treatment.

I do like the hanging acoustic treatment to the right.  It almost looks like a normal sheet, but I know it must be a special absorbant panel

Shokunin:  That supplier is the only one I know of around here too.

All:  I'm not finished yet

My other problem is "reviewers", and there rooms.

I have been in and seen many rooms of well known reviewers and I am sad to say, many of the rooms are less than I would expect.

While many of them delight in some of the more esoteric "dots" and "pucks" and strange looking wooden stands, few have the best acoustic treatments to actually allow them to hear the traits and sonic elements, character and performance of the "megabuck" equipment they are reviewing.

I met HP's "set up" man the other day (yes ""THAT HP") and after hearing the system he set up, engaged him in a conversation about "acoustically treating" a room for a reviewer.  

I ask him what products he suggested and planned to carry (he was entering retailing) and he said he had no idea??????????  

YeeeOWWW!!! How are we supposed to interpret a review in a Shoon Mook Shakti (or whatever) treated room, that has sonic energy released and then reflected to sonically light up a room like a "sound" flood light.

If the room goal of great "projection video" is to reduce and or eliminate as much reflected light as possible to get the best "video" picture, the same goal is reasonable for reducing the reflected sound to get the best "Sonic Picture".

Reflected light and sound negatively affect their respective sources and the creation of accurate video and sonic depiction.

I may even have some comments about the "too dead" room soon.  and why I doubt that most of us have to worry about that.

[Mike-48]

I agree that the room is often neglected.  It's a shame when *dealers* demo an expensive speaker in an untreated or poorly treated room -- how can you tell what it can do?

When I see expensive gear for sale on Audiogon,  the seller's photos often reveal an untreated room.  Makes me wonder why anyone would listen to a $50k rig in a bare room.  Also, whether the gear would be for sale at all if the owner had listened to it in a decent room.  

What do folks think?  How many of those perpetual gear swappers (satisfied with nothing, no matter how expensive) are reacting to poor acoustics?

Mike

[John Casler]

I agree that the room is often neglected.  It's a shame when *dealers* demo an expensive speaker in an untreated or poorly treated room -- how can you tell what it can do?

When I see expensive gear for sale on Audiogon,  the seller's photos often reveal an untreated room.  Makes me wonder why anyone would listen to a $50k rig in a bare room.  Also, whether the gear would be for sale at all if the owner had listened to it in a decent room.  

What do folks think?  How many of those perpetual gear swappe ...

Hi Mike,

Well As you can tell I certainly concur.

A very high performance system in a "low perfromance" room is like driving a Formula One car in a parking lot

[Ethan Winer]

Mike,

> It's a shame when *dealers* demo an expensive speaker in an untreated or poorly treated room <

Yes, it amazes me too. One of the high-end stores near me has the most ugly sounding room - not just booming bass problems, but obvious midrange echoes and excess ambience. When I asked the salesman if they ever considered bass traps and room treatment I got a blank stare, like "what's that?"

>  How many of those perpetual gear swappers (satisfied with nothing, no matter how expensive) are reacting to poor acoustics? <

A lot of people don't even know that their room is a factor. I'll argue that the room is more important than anything else. One problem is the "gear" mindset perpetuated by manufacturers. And many dealers and enthusiasts just don't know any better.

--Ethan

[electricbear]

I also find the lack of room treatments somewhat perplexing. Although there are some associated costs in training sales staff on room acoustics I feel that the payoffs make sense . I feel it's a dealers duty to help their customers maximise the potential of their equipment and part of that should include speaker placement and room acoustics. Dealers complain about internet w****s selling equipment at a little above cost yet they do nothing to encourage people to buy from them . Provide a service to your customer base and give them a reason to buy from you. All my staff discuss correct set up and acoustics with their customers , not to do so would be a disservice . When bringing up room acoustics with a customer most of them will tell you that none of the other stores even mentioned the subject. Here is an interesting test to try on your local dealers, ask one of the staff there if they know what the spped of sound is . How can they advise you on audio if they do not know the most fundemental and basic facts ?
 Treating a room can be done relatively inexpensively and need not neccessarily fall out of favour with the spousal acceptance factor. Would you buy a Ferrari and put 87 octane in the tank ? then don't do the same with your audio system.

[nathanm]

Here's what would be a great demo for a dealer to setup in their store:  Have two identical rooms (or as close as possible in size) one with a 'set design' that mimicks the average person's living room with normal furniture, bare walls and such.  Then have the second room with the appropriate acoustic treatments on the walls.  Put an identical set of gear in both rooms and let people hear for themselves what they mighty expect to hear in their own homes if they decide to purchase.  It should be kind of like a laboratory experiment with different rooms more represenative of what people actually have.  People could see that reasonably-priced gear in a properly treated room sounds better than really pricey gear in the regular 'ol room.

I know, it's a lot of work, but it would be a wonderful demo.  It would also balance out the disappointment arising from someone who bought the super pricey whatchamacallit which sounded awesome in the dealer's super-tricked out room once they plop it in their schlubbo everyman's room with bare walls etc.  They might realize that hey, acoustics make a REAL difference!

[jasontkennedy]

Good idea Nathanm, one problem that I believe to be irresolveable; floor space.  Real estate in this game is an extremely valuable commodity. We measure the value of each sqaure foot very highly. WE have to saturate the floor with a variety of displayed products from multiple vendors. My store for example has a High End 2 channel room, high end theater room, a budget theater (f. projection) room, a mid level theater w/ a plasma, and a mid/high room with a CRT reat projo. So you see, we have a little bit of everything in every catagory that we sell, and not much room to spare. The only stores who could make the space would be big box stores,  and none of them do paneling. Much less employ anyone who can explain it. However, we do have our acoustic panels on impaling clips that we can easily pop off. Plus, as Elecetric bears just said to me, (he is sitting about 5 feet to my right) that any dealer worth their salt who does acoustics will have free standing panels on hand to do an in home demo.

[Mike-48]

JoshK --

Those are real plaster/lath walls in your picture!  Used to have them, but moved to a newer house.

When yours are repaired, do try to replace with the same.  In my experience, they are much better acoustically than wallboard, which resonates like a drum.

Mike

[JoshK]

They are not getting replaced, that wall is being opened up.  A header is going in and the uprights are coming out.  I'll definitely look at finishing it with plaster though.  I find that the walls in this place are less resonating as you say but they have a lot of slap echo.

[Mike-48]

In my experience, slap echo is unavoidable with smooth walls. However, random pieces of acoustic foam of fiberglass -- or even wall hangings (rugs or quilts) or bookcases can tame it.

Just walking into a plaster room vs. a sheetrock room and having a conversation, I can tell the difference. The plaster room always seems quieter.

Best of luck with the renovations!