Quad ESL Question

louie3 · « **Reply #40 on:** 16 Jul 2015, 12:50 pm »

Steve,

Yep, sounds as though the 989's need a trip to Dr. Kent's for a check up.

Had I been closer to KC, that's what I would have done. The hassle and expense of shipping forced me to try some repair work myself (with rebuilt panel from Kent), my US Monitors are working fine now, but the process would have been significantly easier on my frustration level if I could have just handed them off in KC.

The Quads of this type are both complicated and delicate physically. When right, they are glorious, when bad, they are horrid.

Good luck,

Louis

steve f · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 Jul 2015, 07:51 pm »

Well now there is a sidetrack. I bought a pair of Sanders ESLs. The Quads are not discards. They will become my November project out in the garage. I'll join the ranks of take them apart, send out the panels, etc. I might be foolish to repair a diaphragm or two myself. I can't ruin something that is already broken. I'm always happiest when I have an interesting challenge on hand, and boy do I ever.

steve

Jon L · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Jul 2015, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: steve f on 29 Jul 2015, 07:51 pm

Well now there is a sidetrack. I bought a pair of Sanders ESLs.

Nice. Which Sanders? I've only been able to listen to them via Sanders amps in past and would be interested in how they sound with other amps.

Don_S · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Jul 2015, 08:11 pm »

Steve,

Good luck with your Quad repair project.

Essay assignment: 500 words or less compare and contrast performance Sanders vs Quad.

steve f · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Jul 2015, 11:02 pm »

Jon L, I bought 10C speakers. I didn't buy a Magtech, too rich for my blood. Someday.

Don S, I'll need some luck for the Quad repair. I will sharpen a pencil and do a comparison. The repair will be a winter project, and I'll try to document it. There's no shortage of damaged Quads.

Louie3, I couldn't resist getting another ESL while Quads are down.

steve

louie3 · « **Reply #45 on:** 30 Jul 2015, 01:32 pm »

Roger could not resist.

It is unfortunate you can't compare the two. I have wondered about the Sanders speakers, too. If you buy the ERAudio kit (bout $300), and read the directions constantly between now and winter, I think you will find you can, in fact, repair the panels.

I have the kit and the most complicated part of the panel repair is the one in your head.

One thing is for sure, you gotta have a clean work table that allows you to not spend hours bent over at a bad angle or you will be on Aleve for a week, and that's bad for your kidneys.

Certainly interested in your thoughts about the Sanders. 10C is a hybrid, right? You know...I bet a Quad 909 would work like a champ with the 10Cs.

You never really got a clean listen to the Quads, right?

Don_S · « **Reply #46 on:** 30 Jul 2015, 02:46 pm »

Steve,

I did not know you had not listened to the Quads working properly.

Here is a link to the EARkit louie3 mentioned. I had never heard of it and was curious.

http://www.eraudio.com.au/ESL_Repair_Kits/esl_repair_kits.html

steve f · « **Reply #47 on:** 30 Jul 2015, 04:18 pm »

I had one Quad work fine for awhile. The other was making popping noises from day one. I'm familiar with Quads in general. Friends owned both 57 and 63 models. The sound of the working Quad convinced me to ship the other for repairs. I spent some time doing a minor fix or two, but a rebuild was in order. Then the other one started failing too. I debated buying the Essence ESLs but nobody seems to have any experience with them. I loved what I heard, and I'm an admitted audio nut. ( although I accept science, no audio voodoo need apply) I was going to replace my Linkwitz Orion speakers with them.

I'm going to repair the Quads, and will contact the company in your link. I'll be working in my garage. I live in Arizona so that means it will be a winter project.

steve

Don_S · « **Reply #48 on:** 30 Jul 2015, 04:31 pm »

Steve,

Please not that I have no knowledge of that company's product. I do have a friend who replaced the dust covers on his Quads and won't do it again.

It was not a fun project and he ruined as much material as he got to fit right. The product was not from the link I sent you but my friend said the lighter the material the more "fun" it is to work with. He is an electronics technician and repairs audio equipment for fun and profit. Redoing Quad panels is an entirely different skill set.

It appears that the kit includes extra material but I am not sure how much is needed per speaker.

steve f · « **Reply #49 on:** 30 Jul 2015, 05:25 pm »

Don,

No worries. I'm the kind of guy who actually enjoys projects like this. The worst thing I can do is lose the cost of the repair parts. That's all part of ESL 101 lab fees. I can set up shop in my garage and work on them at a leisurely pace this winter. (I'm in Arizona, no summer garage stuff here.) i just figure that between the old adhesives, old diaphragms, old dust overs, and a couple of old electrolytic capacitors, a full rebuild is in order. It will keep me out of trouble.

steve

steve f · « **Reply #50 on:** 30 Jul 2015, 08:21 pm »

I did make one mistake. I don't have any XLR cables. I went to a store and found out that you can get 3' cables or very long ones. So I ordered what I needed online. No ESLs until tomorrow night. Aargh!!!

It's kinda funny to be listening to a pair of point source speakers, especially small ones, but looking at a pair of planar speakers. There is a disconnect there.

steve

steve f · « **Reply #51 on:** 1 Aug 2015, 07:46 am »

Tonight I got everything assembled, made a few rudimentary adjustments, put in a good demo disc, and hit play. Wow, just wow. My search is over.

I'll be dialing things in a bit over the next few weeks, but not a whole lot. The Sanders 10C are that good.
I'm happy.

steve

louie3 · « **Reply #52 on:** 1 Aug 2015, 12:49 pm »

How big are these things?

How big is yer room?

Dammit, Steve, are you saying I ain't done with the search?

steve f · « **Reply #53 on:** 1 Aug 2015, 03:36 pm »

They're just shy of six feet tall and about fifteen inched wide, the TL bass part extends about eighteen inches. They weigh about eighty pounds each.

My room sucks. I don't have a dedicated room. I have a side of a great room area, basically my living room open to the rest of the area. It's a large acoustic space. If they aren't controlled directivity speakers, they don't work. Planars do just fine.

You are more than three fourths of the way there. Quads, and a great amp to drive them, you're good.
The Sanders primary advantage over Quads is their ability to crank. Somebody should build a concentric driven Quad with Sanders panel construction.

There are negatives. I've noticed that some music I enjoyed before, now show recording defects. Yeah, I stayed up all night listening.

steve

SteveFord · « **Reply #54 on:** 1 Aug 2015, 07:29 pm »

We should see some pictures...

Windows 10 is acting goofy in case anyone is thinking of updating - stupid emoticons aren't getting picked up.

steve f · « **Reply #55 on:** 1 Aug 2015, 09:47 pm »

Hi Steve,

Yeah I'll have to post a couple pics. It might be a few days though. Right now my LR looks like a hi-fi shop changing out its gear. My wife, who supports my insane hobby as a music lover, would shoot me if I post any pic of the mess before I repack stuff and put away boxes.

steve

louie3 · « **Reply #56 on:** 2 Aug 2015, 01:28 pm »

Bless wives with patience for a little mess to hear good music. These people are a national treasure.

I do have a dedicated room, it's a little strange, but my wife always asks how messy it is before she comes down for a listen. If the music is piano concertos, she will listen anyway.

I have three options with the Quads...run them full range, alone; run them full range with subs; or run the top end through a venerable Dahlquist LP 1 electronic xover crossing at 40 hz to the subs.

Either way, they play loud enough for me...in my room (20X20, but with slightly less than 8-foot ceiling. Mucho treatment on back wall, bass traps in all four corners, concrete walls and floor, suspended ceiling (on 2x8 floor joists for the room above).

But...as I teeter on the brink of senility, I am much more conscious of damage to my hearing from too loud.

So I am training myself to listen a little lower. Seems to be working well, as long as the system is transparent enough.

Hearing recording defects is telling you something... More transparent? Tipped up on top? One thing I have learned about electrostats is that the differences among and between amps, while audible, is less obvious than with some boxes. If you look at the amplification used with Quads by other folks its all over the place...from mid-fi integrateds to Audio Note's the price of decent housing and beyond.

After your mention of slam, I hooked up the system through the Dahlquist xover, which passes the top end through one (Kimber) good cap (all the electronic stuff is done below the xover point).

I hear a very slight difference in transparency with things set up this way. Maybe I will roll this cap and see what happens...its a small value, thus not too pricey.

But with the Quad 909, this system will play LOUD!! (Subs are home brew 12 inchers in boxes built from two layers of 3/4 inch plywood made from audiophile approved Brazilian coconuts or something, driven by plate amps sitting outside the boxes.)

Man, this is fun.

steve f · « **Reply #57 on:** 6 Aug 2015, 06:13 pm »

It's a start. i still have a lot of work to do. The room is the biggest part of the problem.

steve f · « **Reply #58 on:** 6 Aug 2015, 06:33 pm »

i have to add that there is nothing exotic in the system as pictured. The junk on the upper left of the shelving is just cable box, phone, and internet equipment. The two boxes on the right are an Essence HDACC and a generic Samsung BluRay player. Second shelf is the digital crossover/equalizer, a Sanders modified Behringer. Below that a Crown XLS1500 and Behringer EP4000. All cabling is very generic. I removed a subwoofer as it doesn't seem necessary.

Steve

steve f · « **Reply #59 on:** 17 Aug 2015, 05:10 pm »

I finally got the Sanders 10C dialed in. I flat out love them. Very small adjustments were necessary. All of a sudden things just popped into place. This means tape on the floor to mark position.

steve