[mca]

Has anyone had any experience with a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet? I am looking for something to run my Unico Integrated and Tjoeb CD player through. Right now they are plugged directly into the wall.

I don't have much to spend and hoping one of these would be better than nothing. I know they can be found for about $300 on Agon.

If these are bogus, what else could be found at that price or up to about $500? I once tried a BPT 2.5 in my theater room and it buzzed like a mother and I had to send it back, so I am a little leary of them.

Come to think of it, it would be nice to find something with four outlets to be able to plug my TV and satellite box into also.

[Dmason]

The PS Audio Ultimate Outlet is basically an isolation transformer with comprehensive EMI/RFI filtration. It is identical to the lower end products from OneAC and Powervar, which can be found all over eBay for under $100, and usually around $30, often with greater implementation, outlets, etc.

[Occam]

Dmason,

Your description is incorrect. The UO is a based upon common mode choke (CMC). It is not comparable to the Powervar or OneAC products. The UO's performance is subustantially better (for audio puroposes) than the typical industrial CMC through some rather clever engineering and implementation. Its use of a specific formulation of an iron powder core (#26 formulation) as well as its flanking capacitors allows it to effectively deal with differential noise as well as common mode noise as typically handled by ferrite based industrial CMCs. Its a rather nice and effective product. The only product which is similar to the UO is the deZoral filtration prodiucts.

[orthobiz]

I have the PS Audio Power Director 3.5 with 4 zones and 20 outlets. It's something like 4 UO equivalents. I'm glad Occam can defend it better than me. I feel safer using it and it works well!

biz

[DVV]

Dmason,

Your description is incorrect. The UO is a based upon common mode choke (CMC). It is not comparable to the Powervar or OneAC products. The UO's performance is subustantially better (for audio puroposes) than the typical industrial CMC through some rather clever engineering and implementation. Its use of a specific formulation of an iron powder core (#26 formulation) as well as its flanking capacitors allows it to effectively deal with differential noise as well as common mode noise as typically h ...

Don't tell me you opened up your DeZorel filter as well? You seem to have, if you can discuss its topology.

Anyway, I did, I just couldn't take the suspense any more, and I do have several of them. So the oldest fell victim to ending my suspense. It has a very deceptively simple configuration, but I just hate to think of the maths behind it (I always hated math, exception being percentages).

Just seven components per filter is good, but what it does is really impressive. A pi cell, takes out BOTH differential and common mode noise, in effect just what is realistically required.

But it has two shortcomings. One is use of sintered materials; no matter which, no matter how good, they WILL change in time. If they are of good quality, they will change by becoming more compact, in turn yielding still better filtration. Anyone owning a filter like that will be happy to know that in 2-3 years' time, his filter will be say 2-3 dB better than when new. But if the sintered material is not that good, .... and most low cost are not ....

The second is the need to have all wound bodies in as close a tolerance as possible. The tighter the tolerance, the better the performance. And I'm not sure machines can be used to wind insulated wire around sintered toroids - but I could be wrong, I'm not familiar with such production techniques.

The one I opened up is now about 4 years old, so it's possible the new models may have had some modifications applied.

Cheers,
DVV

[Marbles]

Might want to check into these:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=8270&highlight=bolder

They are still available.

I almost bought one, but decided to have my Monster power strip modded instead.

[Occam]

MCA,

You didn't describe the specific components you intend to 'condition'.
The filtration and overall efficacy of any power conditioning component often is dependant upon the current draw of the 'fed' components. The Jon Risch type filtered conditioner referenced above, might well be quite effective for source components, but might well be problematic if driving a power/integrated amp. The result is often described as 'constipated', i.e. constrained dynamics. It would depend on the specific inductors used as well as the current requirements.

With regards to that buzzing transformer in the BPT product, the problem might lie with DC imposed on your AC mains line. This issue is addressed in this thread -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=12706
Using a toroid transformer as an isolation/balancing transformer strikes me as somewhat oounterproductive (aside from cost/size constraints) as they have a rather wide bandwidth, something you don't want in a power transformer running at 50/60hz.


DVV,

I've never had access to a deZoral. My comment was based upon published descriptions (lack of ground involvement, desiribility of inductor 'balance',...) and attenuation characteristics; an 'edumicated' guess. Please note I said the UO and the deZoral were comparable, not equivalent....
The #26 cores produced by Amidon  or Micrometals are quite good (I'd prefer #52 formulatiion, which sadly is not twice as good.  )

[mca]

Occam,

As noted in my first post, the components are a Unison Research Unico integrated and an Ah Tjoeb 4000 CD player.

[DVV]

...
DVV,

I've never had access to a deZoral. My comment was based upon published descriptions (lack of ground involvement, desiribility of inductor 'balance',...) and attenuation characteristics; an 'edumicated' guess. Please note I said the UO and the deZoral were comparable, not equivalent....
The #26 cores produced by Amidon or Micrometals are quite good (I'd prefer #52 formulatiion, which sadly is not twice as good. )

In which case, I am most pleased to inform you that your "edumicated" guess was in fact completely right. Very well done!

I on the other hand have never seen a UO, much less opened it up. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if they were made on the very same basis, with the usual petty differences which different designers will always bring in. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if comparable stretched out to say 95%+ of equivalency (at least, electrically speaking).

By the look of the contents, I'd guess that the rings were from either Siemens, or Iskra, a Slovenian manufacturer which has for 30 years or more always managed to have better sintered rings than the big, BIG Siemens. On a scale of 1-10, I'd rate Siemens as 8 and Iskra as 9. But I haven't played with those things for years, so it's possible my data is, er, outdated.

Cheers,
DVV

[Occam]

MCA,

Sorry, obviously, my reading retention isn't very good..... While the UR amp isn't a monster current draw, the use of a Jon Risch  type filter  with your amp might have that previously mentioned problem.

DVV,

Many thanks for the complement. My ego needed that boost as my recent 'edumicated' guess as to PS Audio's 'gain cell' topology was totally off base. Marketers and reviewers face that inevitable problem in trying to describe the features and functionality of a given product, while not disclosing too much. For me, its always an interesting execise to attempt to suss out the underlying architecture ( or rather, it may be a comment on the existential emptiness of my life... )
A few years ago, after reverse engineering the UO, I actually built one from scratch. If one thinks that commercial products are too expensive, I can only suggest you try and wind 10ga soliid core wire around a 3" toroid, and you'll realize there is a world of difference between an academic understanding and practical implementation.

For readers interested in a deeper understanding of the requirements of and sound engineering improvements to our power supplies, I highly reccomentd DVV's website -
http://www.zero-distortion.com/start.htm
specifically his article 'Designing your own power supply"

Regards,
Occam

[DVV]

...For me, its always an interesting execise to attempt to suss out the underlying architecture ( or rather, it may be a comment on the existential emptiness of my life...  )

Oh come now, surely it's a matter of time before you realize what it is that fills you with joy. For me, several things: my family, my son in particular, a few good projects I managed to do, that one loudspeaker I ever actively participated in developing (which I'm listening to at the moment), my mean ol' Yugo project (or: How To Turn An Inconspicuous Yugo Into A Mean Machine, Nicknamed "Pure Adrenaline"), and so forth.

I hope you are not waiting for something big - big hardly ever happens, life is a string of small things and events.

As for squeezing info out of ads, well, that's an art I have worked much on myself, and do generally good. Of course, sometimes I really fly off the handle, other times I hit it spot on, but usually somewhere in between. It's fun, putting together a jigsaw puzzle.

A few years ago, after reverse engineering the UO, I actually built one from scratch. If one thinks that commercial products are too expensive, I can only suggest you try and wind 10ga soliid core wire around a 3" toroid, and you'll realize there is a world of difference between an academic understanding and practical implementation.

Completely agreed. It's well documented I have no mercy towards manufacturers and dealers, but your point is a very true one. It's always easy to go into splendid isolation and pass judgement on others, but when you have to roll up the sleeves and do it yourself, it then becomes a different matter.

Totally arbitrarily, I take the liberty of passing some judgement only because I have a cupboard full of working projects. Not all are good, of course, but some of them really are.

Cheers,
DVV

[mca]

So I think through all that I got a suggestion to try a Jon Risch power filter?

[JoshK]

So I think through all that I got a suggestion to try a Jon Risch power filter?

That isn't what I got from this at all.  Many you should re-read a bit.  If anything the Jon Risch filter was cautioned and the UO tauted.

Guys, would the UO limit dynamics in anyway, or as Occam put it, make it constipated?  Can it work for amps as well?

[orthobiz]

Most of the"constipated" comments I heard were with the use of the PS Audio power regenerators. I never heard constrictive sound reports about the ultimate outlets. The only problem with my Power Director 3.5 is that it is silver. So one day my wife walked into my room and said, a finger pointing to the PD 3.5, "is that new?" Apparently, as long as it is black, it flies under her radar. Actually, last time she noticed a silver component, it was the Tosh 3950 and I proudly told her it was 50 bucks (which it was).

I think the PD 3.5 comes in black. I like it.

biz

[JoshK]

Haha....same here.  If it is black is flies low, if it is silver I have some 'splaining to do.     Little does she know that the silver ones are far cheaper than all the black ones in my rack.

[DVV]

So I think through all that I got a suggestion to try a Jon Risch power filter?

Try it - yes, buy it without trying - no.

The problem with line filters in general is that they have to deal with many things at once, and some of them are contradictory. It has to cut common mode noise, differential noise, surpress nasty peaks which can easily hit 500 volts and opver here in Europe, where 220-230 VAC is standard, 900 volt peaks can easily be observed on any decent oscilloscope. Furthermore, ideally that filter would not introduce phase shifts, obligatory with any filter, and would not limit the current at all right up to its nominal operating limit. It's almost as if you were asking it to act as a digital brickwall filter.

In practical terms, satisfaying all this is downright impossible on an equitable basis. Whis is another way of saying compromises have to be made, no matter what kind of dough we talk about, 2, 3, 4 or 5 digit numbers.

In real world terms, every designer has his own view of how it should be done, and will therefore make his own set of compromises. While I have plainly stated here and elsewhere that DeZorel makes the best line filters I have ever heard, don't think for a moment that they too have not made their own set of compromises. Price is just the most obvious one, but they are there technically as well. Also, there are quite a few I have not heard.

Put it together and what I'm really saying that you should try as many power line filters as you can. This will gain you valuable experience, and will train your ears to appreciate their effects, or the lack of them, much better. Then you can make up your own mind which is the best power line filter for you.

How else? A power line filter interacts with the rest of the system very directly; who among us can positively know how any filter will behave in your system? All we can do is to relate our own experineces, which are related to our own systems.

There is no clear cut answer - there never was.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

Haha....same here.  If it is black is flies low, if it is silver I have some 'splaining to do.     Little does she know that the silver ones are far cheaper than all the black ones in my rack.

A slick lawyer could define that as maritial infidelity - watch out, Josh, alimonies are no peanuts money. )))

Cheers,
DVV

[mca]

Well, after doing some looking I'm down to a couple of things I would like to try out. The first is a Powervar ABC-1200-11 to try out. I would like to try my hand at modding it with new outlets, wire, bypassing the power switch, some ERS and maybe even a Bybee or two thrown in for good luck.

I would also be intereted to try out the new PS Audio UPC-200. IT should be able to cover my stereo system as well as my TV and satellite box.

I guess if anything, the Powervar would be fun to try my hand at modding. If it works as good as some say, it would be a nice way to save some bucks  

[Psychicanimal]

Well, after doing some looking I'm down to a couple of things I would like to try out. The first is a Powervar ABC-1200-11 to try out. I would like to try my hand at modding it with new outlets, wire, bypassing the power switch, some ERS and maybe even a Bybee or two thrown in for good luck.

I would also be intereted to try out the new PS Audio UPC-200. IT should be able to cover my stereo system as well as my TV and satellite box.

I guess if anything, the Powervar would be fun to try my hand at modding. If it works as good as some say, it would be a nice way to save some bucks  

Don't waste your time & money on a PowerVar, dude...

[mca]

Doing a search on the PowerVar brings up a lot of positive comments, just wondering as to why you think they are a waste?