NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23

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richard_crl032

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #100 on: 26 Apr 2020, 02:19 pm »
This is not an officially approved configuration. Omnia S1 has a customised Android OS and device driver.
Until we can test and approve it, please do not assume that it will work.

Hi Jason,

I can confirm uapp does not work but I do not need it since it is fgpa decoding that I bought into for sound quality which is very very nice and I still have my usb bridge signature for full flac radio stations that I really like very much.

I can install uapp but it will just play the first track of the hdd regardless what track I select to playback.

Cheers.

Richard

richard_crl032

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #101 on: 26 Apr 2020, 02:32 pm »
What do you mean by waiting for software ready units? Omnia S1 works from "day one" with any DLNA compatible software and hardware.
The server and receiver software run in the background upon power up.

Hi Jason,

To be more specific and hopefully help other new omnia s1 owners here, omnia server does not appear when it is powered up.  It only shows up if you have a compatible fat32 or ext32 storage device is attached.

That was one key puzzle that took 2 days to discover .. I had a ntfs 2tb hdd attached and was troubleshootng why omnia server was nowhere to be found in my network or all upnp software for playback ... I had other issue of moode dlna server not supporting dsd but glad edgefi and my SAP friend into streaming music helped me to reach this stage of listening to better sound quality as compared to usb bridge signature albeit amost 3 time $ but still value for money (vfm) against usb bridge signatue that is still evfm (excellent value for money).

Cheers.

Richard

richard_crl032

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #102 on: 26 Apr 2020, 02:43 pm »
Your question is very welcome and will help us to create a whole FAQ section on wireless audio.
The answer to your question is "it depends on your performance requirement".  Let me explain here.
Lets go through some basic terminology (I am writing the FAQ as I compose this reply):

Media Server - It reads locally connected hard drive or network storage device for the music library and can send the decodced music format in PCM or DSD via physical USB, optical, coaxial or ethernet cable, or WiFi to the receiving end.  All the so called media servers on the market are either Windows, Linux (Synology is also a customized version of Linux) or Android.  They are all "computer".   The media server is generally a DLNA server where DLNA is an industry standard.  Apple has its own iTune server format. There are some variations in the DLNA formats (such as album, artist, etc) but we don't need to go into these here.

Streamer - this is technically a DLNA renderer but generally called a receiver.

So now you can put together the basic system:  A controller (App on phone or tablet, or software running on computer) can locally or remotely control (ie. communciate) the server and streamer.  It can browse the server for music and then ask the server to send the decoded music to the receiver.  But there are more ways that music can flow from one place to another.  Streaming services have their own Apps (Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz, etc) that run on PC or mobile devices to send music from the cloud to your receiver.  Obviously your mobile devices (they are all "computer") can also send local music from phone to receiver.

Just think of all the physical devices as "computer".  Think of media server as a piece of software that retrieve local or network music.  Think of streamer as the software that receives music.  And think of Controller or Player as the software that "talk" to all these devices, including the stream services that reside in the cloud.  Now we strip away all the jargon and confusing terminologies.

One last thing before I answer your question:  Since media server and streamer are software, so they can BOTH co-exist on the same physical device. This is a very important concept.  That's why some "streamer" can serve and receive msuic.  And in some cases a single software (such as the Windows or JRiver Media Center) is both a server and receiver.

Ok, now we can discuss your setup. If you have a large library of DSD music, then using a PC (Windows or Mac) to connect via USB cable to DAC offers the best performance. 
If not, then you can use a media server (hey, remember that it is still a computer in disguise, but with customised hardware such as better power supply etc).  You can use Omnia S1, Raspberry Pi, Synology, or all sorts of so called media server to serve up your music libary (resides on a hard disk that is connected to the server device).  Or you can still keep on using your PC or Mac.

Why use Omnia S1 ?
1) The main difference between Omnia S1 and all other media server is that it can run standard streaming services App like Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz etc on it.  Oh, youtube too. You can not do that with Raspbery Pi or Synology and other media servers. Well, WIndows or Mac PC can do that too.  This is important because the hardware no longer depends on the "mercy" of the streaming services.  It is well known that Spotify has stoppped supporting those AV receivers that have built in service.  The streaming services (Apple, Amazon, Spotify, Tidal, Quobuz etc) all want to control the user interface.
What if you say I don't care about running App on Omnia S1, I just want a device that can serve up my music?  Then read #2 below.

2) Omnia S1 has a custom hardware that optimises the decoding, buffering and streaming of music.  And it has the NuPrime styling and matches the 9 series.  If you don't care about this, then you either go back to PC or buy Synology or other media servers.
Disclosure: Omnia S1 gives better performance when serving local music than straming App, and this is not due to the music format. Given the same format (CD quality for example), local or network music goes through Omnia renderer and custom audio firmware.  The streaming App gets the music from the cloud and go through standard Anroid audio firmware so it won't sound as good.   Illustration:
a) Spotify music from cloud --> Spofity app on Omnia S1 --> standard Android audio firmware --> output to DAC
b) Local or network music --> Omnia Renderer on Omnia S1 --> custom Android audio firmware --> output to DAC
We are working on replacing the entire Android audio firmware but that's a lot of work. Then a) and b) will have the same performance given the same music format.

Some of you technical savy guys might ask how can wireless be the same as local network ? Because Omnia S1 has large local buffer on the motherboard.

Final setup:
Omnia S1 connected to a small LCD display, with wireless keyboard and mouse. You need the display whenever you want to run the straming apps or administer the device. This allows Omnia S1 to function without a tablet or phone. You can run the streaming app and play music all day long without looking for your phone to control it. This is convenient if you have a household with several people sharing the music system.
Omnia S1 is connected by coaxial cable to DAC-10 for PCM 24bit/384kHz or DSD64 music.  Omnia S1 i2S can send up to DSD1024 but you need a high end DAC such as Evo DAC with I2S input to decode (even Evo can only do DSD512).
You can use any DLNA compatible controller/Player (such as Bubble uPnP) to control Omnia S1 from tablet or phone.  Nuprime app will come later, around October.

Note that you can't use Spotify/Tidal etc app on your phone to send streaming music from phone to Omnia S1.  You need to run the streaming app on Omnia S1 instead.  This is not the purpose of Omnia S1.  NuPrime Omnia WR ($329 MSRP) is a streamer/receiver scheduling for October release that allows you to stream Spotify etc from phone to Omnia WR (it also comes with Bluetooth 5.0 for convenient)

Since Omnia S1 is a device with server and streamer software on it, you can stream from Omnia S1 to Omnia S1, each having different music library.

Hi Jason,

This is nice read for layman like me but I learned a bit from SAP friend with also last 6 months with allo's sub bridge signature at home and digione signature in car to my helix dsp pro processor.

Why not leave the software to moode, volumino etc. and have your nice hardware technologies with fpga decoding to work with them instead .. which is exactly what allo is doing and these software companies
/developers are even getting allo's hardwares and selling them under their brands ?

Cheers.

Richard

richard_crl032

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #103 on: 26 Apr 2020, 03:04 pm »
Is native DSD possible aside from I2S output? My DAC is the NuPrime DAC-10H, which has no I2S.
If I'm running HQPlayer from a desktop pc, what are my options?

Hi Jason,

Glad Nuprime has this product with high quality sound quality via my preferred i2s that works with my Denafrips Terminator dac at a reasonable price :)

I was looking at Aurender and it was too crazy for their top model at >10x of omnia S1 and even cheapest 5 yrs old product aka 5 yrs old technologies is not for me.

I may have more difficulties than others as I had allo's wonderful products built by audiophiles for audiophile at low $ but the best compliment I can offer to Nuprime is that I had not regretted getting this omnia s1 since 2 days ago for its sound quality via i2s or even coaxial :)

Thank you very much.

Cheers.

Richard

richard_crl032

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #104 on: 26 Apr 2020, 03:27 pm »

Any sonic advantages with omnia 1 feeding dac9 vs node 2i

Price ? 800-900

Hi,

Hope not too late ...

I never owned the bluesound node2i but many reviews on allo's usb bridge signature and digione signature outgunning node 2i in sonic department.

Since I own both mentioned allo's products, I can share that the omnia S1 betters allo's per my above ranting.

Cheers.

Richard

System for reference: Denafrip terminator dac, audible illusion l3a blackgate pre, sander magtech amp, Revel Salon 2 speakers with all nordost quattro fil ICs and cardas clear sc





richard_crl032

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #105 on: 26 Apr 2020, 04:54 pm »
Hi All,

Oops .. I faltered in my comments on sonic aka sound quality especially against usb bridge signature ... this is the first time time I can play back dsd vis i2s.

Previously it was i2s via Jay Audio cdt2 on vanilla 44.1hz cd while dsd playback was via usb from usb bridge signature ..  with apology.

Cheers.

Richard

richard_crl032

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #106 on: 1 May 2020, 04:41 pm »
Hi All,

Finally got the Synology DS218+ with dual enterprise WD/Hitachi 10TB HDD for 5TB of music and redundancy in additional to existing Cosair 512GB thumbdrive to the rear usb3.0 port of the Omnia S1 and a 128gb sdcard via usb adaptor to the allo usb bridge signature running moode OS.

Added the following findings or my limited experience which are perhaps already known to many but I am really a noob in streaming, NAS etc.
- moode dlna server is a miniserver and dsd, dff etc. hires files does not show since not supported
- cosair usb thumbdrive to omnia may not be detected even if rebooted .. I need to remove and reinsert for it to show up as omnia server and few mins only for 512gb to appear for playback
- playing same music files in cosair thumbdrive is discernibly better SQ in my system as compared to via NAS .. expected to me since addtional 2 more ethernet cat 8 cable and a consumer grade 8 ports switch

Updated photos with Synology and highly manageable bubbleupnp app page showing 2 renderers/player of omnia and allo usb bridge signature and the 3 servers/library .. glad singapore distro of Jye and my SAP expert friend helped thus far.

Cheers.

Richard







rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #107 on: 5 May 2020, 07:37 am »
I have not understood if the Omnia S1 is also a preamplifier, in order to be connected directly to a STA9 or STA10.
It would make sense, due to the technology of the Nuprime integrated amplifiers.

It is just a media server, similar to what's on PC or NAS (Synology).  Despite of the quirks with the Android app usage on S1, this product really shines when it is used as a media server. The sound quality from S1 coaxial or I2S to DAC is definitely better than PC or NAS.

Quote
Any plan to release a similar model without integrated DAC? It coul be well seen as a pure digital transport solution.
Does it support Internet Radios and has some technicality in order to optimize their sound?
It is a pure digital transport.
As explained on the product page, when the Apps are used on S1, there are two issues:
1) The media server can not run
2) The sound quality of the App on S1 is not as good as the media server, even if playing exactly the same bit rate music. 

So, you should buy Omnia S1 primarily as a digital transport.

Eugenio_Fen

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #108 on: 18 May 2020, 10:07 am »
I noticed that it is possible to improve bubbleupnp performance in this way: setting - individual renderers upnp/dnla - choosing omnia S1 - quality of resampling to be performed in very high quality.
Bubble upnp remains the only usable software, but it only works with Android. Who has an apple is in difficulty because there is no software that works properly. When will Nuprime software for S1 be released?

Eugenio_Fen

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #109 on: 22 May 2020, 01:00 pm »
I also read that the version of Android 10 provides hd audio up to 192 khz. Could a new version of Android software in a new firmare for Omnia S1, be possible with the ability to stream HD audio to the dac? It would be fantastic and at that point the Omnia S1 would be perhaps the best streamer in the world!

giordy60

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Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #110 on: 22 May 2020, 02:24 pm »
Jason,
why don't you develop an app for Omnia S1?
you did it (well) with WR1 ..... Wink2

witchdoctor

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #111 on: 22 May 2020, 05:39 pm »
I like the Android system better than any other app because it is basically unlimited. Bubble UPNP works perfectly in my rig and I still don't understand all the features yet.