[Jeff K]

Selah Audio has always been a snake-oil free zone. 

[rajacat]

If the crossover design is all that matters, why not use the absolutely cheapest parts possible and save a few bucks? OTOH if those cheap parts do negatively affect the SQ, even a little bit, then this implies that quality parts do make a difference. Perhaps the expensive parts are not cost effective but many "audiophiles" are looking for that last little bit of performance, especially at the high end and don't mind paying a little extra to come closer to their goal.

[Pete Schumacher]

There may be some differences in components due to the dielectric used in the capacitor, or in the case of an inductor, the core.  The biggest differences will occur near the zero crossing where hysteresis losses can introduce nonlinearities.  That's one reason air core inductors are a preferred type when the values aren't prohibitively large.  With capacitors, the more linear the dielectric, the better the small signal linearity will be.

Audibility is another question.  I have met individuals who have demonstrated an ability to distinguish certain caps from others of various types using only music as their means of discernment.  Some caps did not distinguish themselves from others while some stood out as presenting different sonic quality.  Preference was not the criteria, only difference.

[Early B.]

It's a very simple concept -- better parts usually means better quality. A "high end" speaker implies higher quality crossover parts. Otherwise, what are you paying for -- a pretty cabinet?

[DaveC113]

Try a Solen MKP vs a Jupiter copper foil cap and there will be no doubt how much of a difference there can be...

[Pete Schumacher]

It's a very simple concept -- better parts usually means better quality. A "high end" speaker implies higher quality crossover parts. Otherwise, what are you paying for -- a pretty cabinet?

The "pretty cabinet" is probably the hardest part to get right and where most of the cost of a speaker resides.

So, if you are putting that much effort into a nice enclosure, it only makes sense to put great quality parts into it.

[rave959]

Great discussion, guys.  IMHO, if the parts used are within the indicated tolerances, even under stress tests (i.e. heat), then it should be good or quality enough.  Then of course there are people who would like to go overboard, but it's also overkill and the money used for those could be implemented elsewhere in the design.  Good engineering is about making the best possible design at a given amount or less.  Although the "amount' is relative, you get my drift.  Anyone with the means can throw a ton of money on a speaker project, in which any competent designer can make a decent or good sounding pair of speakers.  But, the better engineers are the ones who can design or create something that can sound just as good, if not better, without suggesting on spending extra money on components that will not contribute much to the quality of the sound.  Just my .02 cents. 


Cheers,
Ian

[DaveC113]

Great discussion, guys.  IMHO, if the parts used are within the indicated tolerances, even under stress tests (i.e. heat), then it should be good or quality enough.  Then of course there are people who would like to go overboard, but it's also overkill and the money used for those could be implemented elsewhere in the design.  Good engineering is about making the best possible design at a given amount or less.  Although the "amount' is relative, you get my drift.  Anyone with the means can throw a ton of money on a speaker project, in which any competent designer can make a decent or good sounding pair of speakers.  But, the better engineers are the ones who can design or create something that can sound just as good, if not better, without suggesting on spending extra money on components that will not contribute much to the quality of the sound.  Just my .02 cents. 


Cheers,
Ian

That's a false dichotomy, the whole design vs parts quality thing. I'm an engineer and I believe they are both important and an engineer who is limited to low quality parts is designing with one hand tied behind his back.

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

My speakers use stolen capacitors.  Does that mean it won't sound good or could their be an improvement in SQ if I replace them with boutique capacitors.

Cheers Rod

[Pete Schumacher]

Hi Guys,

My speakers use stolen capacitors.  Does that mean it won't sound good or could their be an improvement in SQ if I replace them with boutique capacitors.

Cheers Rod

What does "sounds good" mean?  If you're happy with what you have, great.  No need to fret over every last little detail, unless you're after that last 2% or less.

Caps make much less of an impact than a different woofer, midrange, or tweeter.  If you already have the best there is for transducers, then the search for that elusive last little bit of refinement in the crossover parts might be worth pursuing.  If the drivers aren't necessarily top of the line that can squeeze vast amounts of low level detail, changing a cap to a different type of the same value may or may not be noticeable.  Much larger changes in sound can be heard with tweaking the values to alter summation at the crossover point, or reducing a tweeter attenuation resistor to raise the level .5dB.  If you're going to spend time in a crossover, that's where to invest it: getting the overall sound correct.  Only then should you switch capacitor types to see if you can notice any changes.  Even 10% value differences can be audible, so in order to really determine if you're hearing the material difference vs. a response difference, the parts must match values as closely as possible.

[Rocket]

Hi,

Okay thank you.  I won't touch the xover as I don't have enough experience.  The mid/bass drivers are seas excel.

Regards Rod

[rave959]

That's a false dichotomy, the whole design vs parts quality thing. I'm an engineer and I believe they are both important and an engineer who is limited to low quality parts is designing with one hand tied behind his back.

I am trying to learn here, so can you explain why what I said was a false separation, especially if one has to design within a price point?  And I didn't mention low quality parts.  In fact, I mentioned parts that are actually performing as measured or as indicated even under stress. 

Thanks,
Ian

[will mac]

 I tend to use standard Mundorf EVO or 200v Clarity Cap ESA; If the tweeter/driver deserves it I'll upgrade to either Rike or Musicap PIO's

recently emailed the owner of a well known cap brand about availability of higher values. He replied that his OEM's often use caps in parallel but not quite equal values(in preference to equal), say an 8uf and 10uf. I have no idea why   

[Rick Craig]

Thanks Rick,

sometimes I think that different xover part might have an impact but not necessarily on  the audio quality but just a different  sound.
Speaker are like good wine, sound prefer this and some prefer that.....
The tempest is quiet good achievement. The only complaint I personally have I thing I've told and that is most likely my problem.

If you're wanting to change the sound adjusting the voicing will have far greater impact than switching out caps. It would be difficult for anyone to argue against that.

[mav52]

Give me a well voiced cabinet over a cheaper cabinet with high end crossover parts any day.  I think it boils down to the sum of all the parts; drivers, cabinet construction, crossover and wiring vs a thrown together concoction with fancy caps and a poor cabinet design.

[ricardojoa]

If you're wanting to change the sound adjusting the voicing will have far greater impact than switching out caps. It would be difficult for anyone to argue against that.

What does a different voicing involves? Can you elaborate a bit, Rick? Is that what you suggested to me about a change in the xover for the mids?

[Rick Craig]

If the crossover design is all that matters, why not use the absolutely cheapest parts possible and save a few bucks? OTOH if those cheap parts do negatively affect the SQ, even a little bit, then this implies that quality parts do make a difference. Perhaps the expensive parts are not cost effective but many "audiophiles" are looking for that last little bit of performance, especially at the high end and don't mind paying a little extra to come closer to their goal.

True, as part of the quest, many are often looking for changes to make their systems better. Some of the cheaper parts are inferior, such as the very high ESR electrolytics or small wire iron core inductors found in many commercial speakers.

[Rick Craig]

What does a different voicing involves? Can you elaborate a bit, Rick? Is that what you suggested to me about a change in the xover for the mids?

Basically changing the output level of the drivers relative to each other. That was my suggestion to you.

[ricardojoa]

Basically changing the output level of the drivers relative to each other. That was my suggestion to you.

Thanks
does this require a new xover built, or would i be able to do it my own?
As you may know, im interested in a 2 way kit, see if we can have something workout.

[Rick Craig]

Thanks
does this require a new xover built, or would i be able to do it my own?
As you may know, im interested in a 2 way kit, see if we can have something workout.

It depends on how the crossover was mounted inside the cabinet. If it can be removed then I can see what the best approach is.