Advice needed - speakers

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Tezza009

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Advice needed - speakers
« on: 11 Apr 2015, 09:31 am »
Hi there

I have been progressively upgrading my system over the past 2 years and now have BDP-1, BDA-1, BHA-1 and 7BSST2. All Bryston electronics and I could not be happier. My next step is to upgrade my speakers.

I currently live in Hong Kong but will be returning to Australia in the next 18 months. I want to purchase in HK as it is much cheaper. In our house in Australia I will have two choices for my listening room. The first is the main living area which is very spacious (combined kitchen, dining, lounge) and the second option is a dedicated room.

The dedicated room is 20' by 13' with relatively low 8' ceilings. This brick room is external to the main house, half buried into the hillside and has a concrete slab for a roof. So it's well insulated. It is also unlined internally so it can be finished in a way to help with the sound quality.

There are many good speaker choices and I have aspired to purchase Wilson speakers for some years now. However, I have been impressed with the reviews of the Bryston speakers (thinking Model T) and these would be much more cost effective. The local Bryston dealer has both PMC and Bryston speakers so I can audition these. I can audition Wilson Sophia, Sasha and Alexia but only with Ayre And Krell amplifiers.

I am looking for advice, suggestions:
Experience with the speakers mentioned for my system.
Comments on the suitability of the dedicated room - is it too small for what I have in mind?

Thanking you in anticipation.

James Tanner

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #1 on: 11 Apr 2015, 09:54 am »
Hi there

I have been progressively upgrading my system over the past 2 years and now have BDP-1, BDA-1, BHA-1 and 7BSST2. All Bryston electronics and I could not be happier. My next step is to upgrade my speakers.

I currently live in Hong Kong but will be returning to Australia in the next 18 months. I want to purchase in HK as it is much cheaper. In our house in Australia I will have two choices for my listening room. The first is the main living area which is very spacious (combined kitchen, dining, lounge) and the second option is a dedicated room.

The dedicated room is 20' by 13' with relatively low 8' ceilings. This brick room is external to the main house, half buried into the hillside and has a concrete slab for a roof. So it's well insulated. It is also unlined internally so it can be finished in a way to help with the sound quality.

There are many good speaker choices and I have aspired to purchase Wilson speakers for some years now. However, I have been impressed with the reviews of the Bryston speakers (thinking Model T) and these would be much more cost effective. The local Bryston dealer has both PMC and Bryston speakers so I can audition these. I can audition Wilson Sophia, Sasha and Alexia but only with Ayre And Krell amplifiers.

I am looking for advice, suggestions:
Experience with the speakers mentioned for my system.
Comments on the suitability of the dedicated room - is it too small for what I have in mind?

Thanking you in anticipation.

Hi Tezza

Could you use the 13 x 20 room with the speakers on the long wall?

james


Tezza009

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #2 on: 11 Apr 2015, 10:22 am »
Hi James

Yes. The room is empty and only has a door and a tiny window. It was originally designed to be a dark room for photography but never finished. I can layout, internally finish and use acoustic treatments with complete freedom!

Regard
Tessa


James Tanner

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #3 on: 11 Apr 2015, 10:47 am »
OK sounds like a great man cave  :thumb:

I have one of my sound rooms which measures 13 x 11 x 8 and I use the long wall for the speakers and sit a foot off the back wall.

I find this works better in narrow rooms as it provides for a much wider soundstage and some perticabilty with bass balance from the back wall

James

Tezza009

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #4 on: 11 Apr 2015, 11:18 am »
Thanks James for your quick response. It must be Saturday morning in Canada and this is another example of the great service that you and the Bryston team provide.

Given this room size would you recommend Model Ts from your range?

JLM

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #5 on: 11 Apr 2015, 11:42 am »
Go with the dedicated room, because:

- It will be dedicated (if you have domestic partner/roommate you can listen when and to what you want)

- It is almost exactly the proportions that Cardas recommends (and what I built for my dedicated room)

- Set it up as you like (speaker across the narrow wall and near-field listening is what Cardas recommends)


Don't know your speaker choices but have no complaints about my room (8 foot ceiling height is standard, at least here in the U.S.).  Having built my room, I insulated the walls, ceiling, door, ductwork, and electrical (as much as reasonably possible).  I run floor-standers that are rated 25 - 20,000 Hz, but am not a head banger.  Near-field listening helps to eliminate room effects, is what studio setups use, and provides amazing imaging (sort of a blend between simple/dull far-field and headphones).  But to work near-field requires the speakers to have an extremely coherent presentation (driver integration) to avoid hearing the sound jump from midrange to tweeter.  With my particular speakers, room, and near-field setup I have treatment (6 GIK 244 panels) at front wall, front corner, and side wall 1st reflection points but they provide little improvement.  James' setup should allow extra soundstage width, but also provide "extra" room-induced bass reinforcement, and could muddy imaging with those very short differences in direct versus back wall reflected sound waves.

My room priorities are: proper proportions; bigger is better; and design (decorate/finish) in whatever style you're (and your ears are) familiar with.  Cubic/spherical shapes are absolutely horrible.  Tiny rooms add room effects, tend to be cubic, and limit bass/soundstage.  If you've (properly) shopped speakers for the intended room and it is decent there should be little need for room treatments.  In my 8 foot x 13 foot x 21 foot drywalled room, beyond the GIK panels I've got 3 tall bookcases (2 on one side wall and 2 on the opposite wall) to act as diffusors (and of course hold books/supplies) commercial wall to wall carpet on concrete slab (basement) and that's it. 

The best speaker design accounts for standing bass waves, inherent to every room (basic law of physics) and would include dispersed bass sources (multiple subs) to nullify the peaks/dips in bass response, so the main speakers would only cover down to mid-bass (80 - 120 Hz).  Ideally you would have shopped for room first, speakers second to fit the room, then the rest of the gear to serve the speakers and your needs (space, formats, control). 

James Tanner

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #6 on: 11 Apr 2015, 12:51 pm »
Thanks James for your quick response. It must be Saturday morning in Canada and this is another example of the great service that you and the Bryston team provide.

Given this room size would you recommend Model Ts from your range?

Hi Tezza

I have used the Model T's in my small room with good success. The Bryston speakers have very even power response across the whole frequency range so you can use our larger speakers in smaller rooms than you would assume.  That being said I think Model T's or Middle T;s would work well.

james


James Tanner

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #7 on: 11 Apr 2015, 12:52 pm »
Here's a shot of the Model T's in my 11 x 13 room.

james








Tezza009

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Re: Advice needed - speakers
« Reply #8 on: 12 Apr 2015, 03:42 am »
JLM - thanks for your helpful advice. Can I ask what lining you would recommend for the internal walls?

James - good to know that the Model Ts would work well. I will focus on them with my auditions.