[John Casler]

So I'm stuck at home right now waiting for my installer to make 2 more trips to pick up gear for a "HUGE" installation in the South Bay.

I was supposed to be at the LA/OC Audio meeting (Hi Guys) helping with the auction, but the best laid plans of "mice and men".

So, with a little extra time, I am finally getting the 4 LARGER subs "dialed in" and it is starting to gel.

I have the subs "stacked" on each other in an L configuration.  That is the bottom sub is horizontally oriented (normal) and the other is up on its end so that the 12" is on top and the slot is on the side.  This is the "L" stack

The bass is awsome, clean and detailed.

The fun part was the putty adjustments since all of these were previously played subs.  So I had to run each sub individually to tune it.  Luckily I have an amp that is stable at 2 ohms so I run each bank of two subs with a single 1000wpc amp.

I have placed a 100# dumbbell on top of each stack so that the total mass is around 370#.  This alone helps provide cleaner bass due to less "reaction" from cone acceleration and braking.

Since these things have lots of power and because of the massive amount of cone displacement/area, high volume levels can be attained with rather small cone movements.

While I have 3 of the 4 woofers with the MegaWoofer option, when using 4 Subs, this option is not as "critical" as it is when using only one or two LARGERS.

Another option (and a quite good musical one) would be to have two LARGERs with a pair of ORIGINALS sitting on top.  This might offer a smoother integration to those who use a higher crossover point with "stand mount" speakers.

I am running them currently in stereo via a NHT X2 crossover which offers some huge flexibilty in set up and dial in.

Integration is virtually flawless.  I am currently running my 626Rs "full range" and ramp the subs in around 25-30Hz.  I know this sounds rather low but strangely enough this is what sounds the best.  It may be a room interaction thing.  Blending higher than that caused major "bass bloom" in the 30-40 region (I mean big time)

The beauty of the set up is that it doesn't call attention to itself until bass is present.  I have a reference disc with a violin peice that ends and goes into "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo".

Holly Freaking Moly     It goes from an ambient concert hall to the Cavernous Bass of Bela Fleck.  I mean the air in the room is shaking, as well as the walls and everthing on them.  My couch feels like it has a "bass shaker" in it and that is all from "airbourne" bass since I am on a concrete slab, meaning little is floor transmitted.

I have heard some remark that they don't feel "impact" from VMPS.  With the right Techno cuts you will receive "CPR and Heart Massage" in that dept. from this set up.

But the main thing is "real bass" not cartoon BOOM Bass.  Stick on Diana Krall's Love scenes and be amazed.  This CD is Krall, her piano, and her Bassist.  The clairity, detail and depth of these cuts is amazing.  It is cohesive, real and musical.

Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature" also has some great bass, depth, speed, and impact.  The cut I like from "Black Light Syndrome", DUENDE. has a "fuzztone" bass line solo early in the cut that has never sounded so clear and defined.

The cool thing is that "backround bass" which you always knew was there, is now deeper, clearer, and more supportive of the music.

Josh Groban - You are There?  Man forget about it.   There is bass on that cut that will freak you out its so low.

In any event, I know some wanted some pics and I will take a few, but I am waiting until I re-do my acoustic treatment.  Right now it looks a little like "Chuckie J's" Place.  So film at eleven.

And I strongly suggest that anyone who has the space (no matter what speakers you are using) consider this arrangement.  It is like nothing else.

[ekovalsky]

Josh Groban - You are There?

Which album is that on?  There is some excellent bass on "Josh Groban" and "Closer".  Track #3 on the first album (a ballad) sounds real mellow until some serious bass kicks in at about 1:30.  It's scared a few people on my system  

[jgubman]

John,

I've been thinking lately about a pair of Largers. In my room, I'd really want them in the original, "tallboy" configuration, but your sideways set-up sounds interesting.

Does putting them on their side negate the benefits of slot-loading? Have you installed a side panel over the PR to keep the slot while they're on their sides?

If you get a chance, could you post your impression of a pair of Largers in normal configuration vs. a pair of "vertical" Largers (even if there is a height discrepancy)?

thanks

[vpolineni]

I am running them currently in stereo via a NHT X2 crossover which offers some huge flexibilty in set up and dial in. Integration is virtually flawless. I am currently running my 626Rs "full range" and ramp the subs in around 25-30Hz.

John,  how are you doing this?  I thought the lowest crossover point the x2 has is 50 hz.  Can you pass low frequencies from 30 hz on down?

[John Casler]

Josh Groban - You are There?

Which album is that on?  There is some excellent bass on "Josh Groban" and "Closer".  Track #3 on the first album (a ballad) sounds real mellow until some serious bass kicks in at about 1:30.  It's scared a few people on my system  

Hey Eric,

Sorry  I don't know how that happened:  the actual title is "To Where You Are" off of "Josh Groban".

[John Casler]

John,

I've been thinking lately about a pair of Largers. In my room, I'd really want them in the original, "tallboy" configuration, but your sideways set-up sounds interesting.

Does putting them on their side negate the benefits of slot-loading? Have you installed a side panel over the PR to keep the slot while they're on their sides?

If you get a chance, could you post your impression of a pair of Largers in normal configuration vs. a pair of "vertical" Largers (even if there is a height discrepancy)?

thanks

Hey Jon,

Actually all the LARGER "slot base assemblys" are shipped in a separate box and they have a large piece of black plywood that holds them together for shipping.  This piece can be reattached after the base has been put on.

It then will allow the sub to be used vertically.

The actual High Boy version of the sub is no longer available, but this is the closest thing to it.

[John Casler]

I am running them currently in stereo via a NHT X2 crossover which offers some huge flexibilty in set up and dial in. Integration is virtually flawless. I am currently running my 626Rs "full range" and ramp the subs in around 25-30Hz.

John,  how are you doing this?  I thought the lowest crossover point the x2 has is 50 hz.  Can you pass low frequencies from 30 hz on down?

The High Pass on the X-2 is selectable for 50/80/110 but I don't use it for high pass.  I run the 626Rs full range and not through the x-over.

The Low Pass is continuosly variable from 30-220 and I have it maxed to the 30 position.

[doug s.]

john,

as a dealer, you chould conwince mr. cheney to offer the original taller cabinets for the larger subs.  or at least kits for those so inclined.  except for "waf', i couldn't imagine why anyone would prefer the lowboy subs.

also, i'd bet that if you would actively cross your 626's at, say 60hz w/a good 24db/octave x-over, they'd sound better.  and as far as monitors go, with subs - i've run my largers as high as 125hz, & they still were extremely tight, musical, non-boomy, etc.  in fact, the reason i had them run that high, is cuz they were actually tighter between 60-125 than the monitors i was using!  

i am also waiting for you to run the 2nd pair of subs in the back of yer room, wired outta phase...  

doug s.

[JoshK]

Sounds to me like John excited a room gain issue.  Time to go to work on the room!  

[John Casler]

john,

as a dealer, you chould conwince mr. cheney to offer the original taller cabinets for the larger subs.  or at least kits for those so inclined.  except for "waf', i couldn't imagine why anyone would prefer the lowboy subs.

also, i'd bet that if you would actively cross your 626's at, say 60hz w/a good 24db/octave x-over, they'd sound better.  and as far as monitors go, with subs - i've run my largers as high as 125hz, & they still were extremely tight, musical, non-boomy, etc.  in fact, the reas ...

Hi Doug,

I agree that the LARGER can be used quite effectively at higher frequencies.  In fact it is the tightest and musical sub I have ever heard.

I did experiment with running it as high as 200 when a client came by who wants to do the 626R/LARGER in a TACT system.

But overall my decision was based on maintaining a "cleaner" signal.

Running the 626Rs full range and using the X-2 as a Low Pass Filter for the subs only means the signal for the mids and highs do not go through all the electronics and extra cables of the X-over.

Plus the 626R is a "remarkable" speaker in its range from top to bottom.  Using the 6.5" megawoofers it offers a very clean run.

If I pick up a Marchand I might try different and higher x-over points.

You and Zybar are prolly    some of the only people who can appreciate the "multiple" LARGER capabilities, and since you have the "Tall Boy" configuration you do get the Height of the 12", that really seems to add "punch and impact"

I actually "do" have a HT "push/pull" since I have my HT in the same room with its sub in the front right corner, and the stacked four LARGERS are then on the left rear wall (in relation to the theater set up) and it is pretty impressive even at low volumes.

[John Casler]

Sounds to me like John excited a room gain issue.  Time to go to work on the room!  

Hi Josh,

Yes, you are correct.  I think it is a combination of the 626R and the LARGERs loading the room, and the 626Rs going much lower than specified.

When I run sweeps with the 626R only in the room, it goes to 35 Hz before a slight drop (5db) at 30 Hz.  If I roll in the LARGERs at 40Hz (which would seem logical if all you did was look at the 626R specs of 42Hz) there is much to much energy in the 30-40 range.

By adding them in at 25/20, it works just right.

I still have lots of "playing" to do, but I have to be aware of when my upstairs neighbor is home.  the wall over my fireplace shakes like a leaf and I have had to find all the little things in the room that "vibrate" if I get ambitious with the volume control.

[doug s.]

...Running the 626Rs full range and using the X-2 as a Low Pass Filter for the subs only means the signal for the mids and highs do not go through all the electronics and extra cables of the X-over...

when using a hi-quality active x-over such as the marchand, the added electronics are transparent to the speaker drivers.  it's all done at line-level, which means it's only the amp that sees the x-over change, not the speaker driver.  any added distortion is vanishingly small.  and, whatever residue there may be is more than compensated for by the monitor's woofer driver being relieved of seeing any frequencies below the x-over point.

in your particular case, tho, w/an apparent room node at ~40hz, running subs up that high may require add'l room treatment.  

regards,

doug s.

[ctviggen]

I don't think it's a room node, I think it's the combination of the 626s and the subs that elevate those frequencies.  So, if John used an active crossover, that might alleviate the problem.

[nathanm]

I have my largers tipped on their sides (mainly so I can still walk through the door) and it works fine.  Low XO point and EQ is necessary though, in my room.  Long term solution is to hopefully marry a woman whose father works in the fiberglass industry.

I can only fantasize about what these subs must sound like in gargantuan cavernous spaces like Doug's, those things must be a whole different story when they aren't cramped up in a bedroom. Poor glossy lil' bastards...

[lonewolfny42]

John,

Please turn that bass down....just heard the news....earthquake in California... [/list:u]

[John Casler]

John,

Please turn that bass down....just heard the news....earthquake in California... [/list:u]

Maybe we should try an experiment.

We'll have George (ZYBAR) and I play the same cut at the same time and one of us will run his SUBS anti-phase for a "national" Push/Pull.

Should be some great Bass around Omaha  

[JoshK]

Good thing you don't have IBS!

[John Casler]

Good thing you don't have IBS!

I had a dose of that once

But while 4 LARGERS don't cure it, they do make you less lkely to catch it