Lower powered integrated amps/DAC's

JLM · « **on:** 21 Mar 2015, 07:49 pm »

Not sure where belongs, so feel free to move it (no more than once please).

Don't see much interest in desktop audio here, but am looking for something of desktop size friendly with a bit more power, some hi-res options, and most importantly with high sound quality (resolution, tone, and imaging). No interest in analog inputs, like the idea of direct digital design, I'd pay up to $2,000 USD for the perfect piece.

Older designs don't do hi-res: CEntrance DAC-mini PX (no longer available?), NuForce iCon-2 (low power, no longer available?), NuForce DDA-100 (understand it can be finicky, still available?), Peachtree nova 65SE (rather big), and Wadia 151 (now available for $500). Newer recommended designs don't seem to provide high sound quality and are underpowered: Bluesound PowerNode, NAD D3020, PS Audio Sprout, Sony UDA-1, and Teac AI-301DA. That would leave the NAD D7050 ($1,000, 50 wpc, only digital inputs, maximum resolution 24/192, Airplay/Bluetooth/Ethernet inputs too). Good sound, mediocre build quality.

Finally, my question: is there a better one-box option to the D7050 for close to $2000? Because I can imagine several combinations of separate DAC and integrates for $2000 with better sound/high resolution options.

TIA

macrojack · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 08:16 pm »

I would consider a Grace Design M 920 and active monitors.

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/m920/m920.htm

Very compact with big time pro studio pedigree and loads of versatility. I want one.

RDavidson · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 09:20 pm »

I think Bel Canto may have one or two options that fit what you're looking for.
Wyred 4 Sound has the little Mint unit too, but not sure about it's DAC limitations.

mresseguie · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 10:12 pm »

JLM,

For clarity, you are asking about amplification for passive speakers (and not a headphone amp), is this correct?

Michael

aldcoll · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 11:59 pm »

And my question is why not use a computer to DAC/amp ?

Or for a small amp a friend has is the Rega Brio. I think it might be about 50 watts and about $800?

And then there is the box that sounds like a concert hall. I think they call it Boze or Bows or is it poooo?

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 11:47 am »

macrojack,

Yes, I've considered that too as plenty to good DAC/pre-amps are available in my price range. But finding an active (not powered) speaker that is designed for home entertainment versus studio work (dry/fatiguing, analytical) is more of a challenge.

RDavidson,

The Bel Canto and Wyred 4 Sound units could be lumped into the "older" designs as none of them go beyond 24/96 resolution.

mresseguie,

Yes, it didn't take macrojack to confuse me. All options are open. Let's see where the thread leads.

aldcoll,

Yes, that's what I started the thread to explore. In this brave new audio world, terms and concepts get confusing. Any suggestions?

srb · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 03:23 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 22 Mar 2015, 11:47 am

Yes, I've considered that too as plenty to good DAC/pre-amps are available in my price range. But finding an active (not powered) speaker that is designed for home entertainment versus studio work (dry/fatiguing, analytical) is more of a challenge.

One of the few manufacturers to offer small active speakers specifically for home stereo use, Dynaudio previously had the Focus 110A, a meticulously crafted 50W/50W Class A/B active monitor with a warmer tonal balance than their BMA studio series.

I've seen them occasionally pop up as NOS in the ~ $1500 range and a bit less used. (Their "replacement", the Excite X14A is ~ $2000 and new enough to not be discounted or found used).

If a pair of the Dynaudios can be located and combined with a Teac UD-501 Preamp/DAC ($700 with rebate) with up to 32/384 PCM and DSD 2.8MHz or 5.6MHz, that in my mind would make a seriously sweet desktop system near or perhaps a few hundred above the $2K budget.

Steve

ted_b · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 04:05 pm »

JLM,
Fill us in here on why you want to limit your choices to "premade combinations" and not evaluate separates as well? I assume the answer has to do with footprint/real estate but not sure. Also, what speakers will you use (how efficient will tell us what kind of power you will need from a one-box)? Obviously, speakers like AudioEngines (assuming the desktop comment was literal) which are powered and accept analog inputs, create a different need upstream than say a set of small passive Harbeths (non-analytical end of spectrum).

As you probably know, the 24/96 limitation is easily overcome with new portable DACs from Chord, iFi and others. Some even try to drive high efficiency speakers directly (via DIY RCA to speaker dongles) with the small amps inside DACs like the Chord Hugo (basically a headphone amp inside). My point is that small hirez DACs, that sit comfortably on top of good integrateds (a much larger pool than your one-box choices), take up very little valuable desktop space, and more importanlty, don;t commit you to an all-in investment (something with low risk in the amp and speaker world but very high risk in this infancy of digital audio).... so let us know what your criteria is. Thx

RDavidson · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 04:54 pm »

How 'bout the Musical Fidelity V90 mini components? The DAC gets quite a bit of praise. From there, just mix and match other V90 components (integrated amp, headphone amp, blue tooth receiver). They'd make a tidy, and nice looking desktop setup. Add a pair of small Omegas.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 05:26 pm »

Quote

some hi-res options

I'd be interested as to what qualifies as hi-res - you say 24/96 does not, but 24/192 does.

Are you chasing DSD, DXD etc?

The NuForce DDA-100 is gone, replaced by a newer model called the DDA-120 but limited to usb input, no other digital input by memory. I believe it retails well within your stated budget at $699. No DSD though.

JLM · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 07:22 pm »

Oops, please allow me to clarify....

My budget would be $2000 USD for DAC/pre-amp, $4000 USD for DAC, amp, and speakers. Looking for desktop size/use, yet sound that can fill a 2,000 cu. ft. room.

Steve,

Just found a very supportive review of the Dynaudio X14A and while their passive designs haven't lit my fire, who knows maybe the X14A would. Is your recommendation of the Teac based on personal experience?

Ted,

Simplicity, space, and cost while maintaining detail, imaging, and tone are my primary considerations. I agree that flexibility would be sacrificed going the integrated amp/DAC route (and inevitably there is a weak link in a combined product). The passive speakers I'm looking at are Salk WOW1 ($1200 USD, 84 dB/w/m, F3 = 48 Hz, small 2-way, front port, that reportedly do very well with NuForce/NuPrime amps). The actives include Adam 3AX, Dynaudio X14A, Focal CMS 50, Munro Sonic Egg 150, and Neuman KH120A. DAC/pre-amps of interest include Hegel DAC 12 and Oppo HA-1.

RDavidson,

Other than the DAC (which some believe Stereophile over rated), the MF V90 series isn't quite in the league I'm looking at. And yes for a low powered integrated amp/DAC, the Omega monitors are a consideration (just can't audition them). And frankly the low powered integrated amps/DACs don't seem to live up to the quality of the Omegas or the DAC/pre-amps mentioned above (and for the price I wouldn't expect them to). Trying to find a quality low powered integrated amp/DAC was the original point of starting this thread.

Mark,

Just don't want to be limited by Redbook or 24/96 in case native hires really takes off. Currently I only own two SACD recordings, but with the virtual death of CDs who can say what will be the MP3 alternative (for the few rest of us)? Love the DDA design, but USB input limited to 24/96 and power may not be enough for the WOW1.

Please keep the comments coming.

fiveoclockfriday · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 09:23 pm »

Just to clarify, the Nuforce DDA-120 is NOT USB limited, at least as far as I can tell:

http://www.optomausa.com/soundproduct/DDA120

It looks to have the same digital inputs as the DDA-100, which I have and enjoy very much: 2x optical, 1x coax, and 1 usb. I believe the USB is 24/96 max while the others are 24/176 I think.

JLM · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 09:36 pm »

Quote from: fiveoclockfriday on 22 Mar 2015, 09:23 pm

Just to clarify, the Nuforce DDA-120 is NOT USB limited, at least as far as I can tell:

http://www.optomausa.com/soundproduct/DDA120

It looks to have the same digital inputs as the DDA-100, which I have and enjoy very much: 2x optical, 1x coax, and 1 usb. I believe the USB is 24/96 max while the others are 24/176 I think.

Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology, because I agree with your quoted specifications. I plan on using USB primarily and don't want to invest in a product that is limited to 24/96.

fiveoclockfriday · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 09:40 pm »

Oh sorry I misunderstood, yes the USB is 24/96 max. You'd have to use a USB - sPDIF convertor to use higher sampling rate stuff with USB.

srb · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 01:34 am »

Quote from: JLM on 22 Mar 2015, 07:22 pm

Steve,

Just found a very supportive review of the Dynaudio X14A and while their passive designs haven't lit my fire, who knows maybe the X14A would. Is your recommendation of the Teac based on personal experience?

No, I had read a number of reviews that had favorably compared it to more costly DACs, it was hi-res and DSD and I liked the construction and dual power supplies which looked very high value to me - but this was all under the (erroneous) assumption that $2K was the total budget.

It will be interesting to see what you end up with.

Steve

DZetye · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 03:22 am »

The Teac does not have line out volume control-only headphone output volume control.

srb · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 03:30 am »

Quote from: DZetye on 23 Mar 2015, 03:22 am

The Teac does not have line out volume control-only headphone output volume control.

I didn't realize that, but now I see it actually has "Phones Level" printed above the knob on the front panel. Now that I think back, I was probably reading reviews and discussions on headphone forums. That's too bad.

Scratch the Teac UD-501.

Steve

geowak · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 05:22 am »

I like the Benchmark AHB2 amp. It is small and I have a Benchmark DAC1 USB, so I think they make great stuff. But the ABHB2 is just an amp. I would combine a DAC that also serves as a preamp with it. Both are small but pack a big punch. I think you stated you have 2000SF of space.

(don't know if that is what you are after)

JLM · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 10:28 am »

Quote from: geowak on 23 Mar 2015, 05:22 am

I like the Benchmark AHB2 amp. It is small and I have a Benchmark DAC1 USB, so I think they make great stuff. But the ABHB2 is just an amp. I would combine a DAC that also serves as a preamp with it. Both are small but pack a big punch. I think you stated you have 2000SF of space.

(don't know if that is what you are after)

Yes, Benchmark makes good stuff and I believe it is the company's intent to use their DACs as pre-amps, but a $3000 power amp shatters my budget. Again the budget is up to $2000 USD for high quality (build, hires, tone, imaging, and resolution) desktop compact integrated amp/DAC or $4000 USD for DAC, amplification, and speakers that can be used desktop or fill my room. To clarify: 2,100 cubic foot room (8 ft x 13 ft x 21 ft, slightly irregular).

viggen · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jun 2015, 09:09 pm »

ifi retro?