[Enrico]

I recently had a chance at an audition of the Incredarrays, thanks to the kindness of an owner. Here are my listening impressions, including the strong points (there are quite a few) and the issues (there are a couple).

-Overall, the Incredarrays are among the best speakers I've auditioned.
- in terms of midrange sound, I would compare the Incredarrays to an electrostatic line source. Detail, micro- and macrodynamics were very good.
-Overall dynamic range portrayal and loudness capacity were impressive.
-The sound seems very *natural*, to my ears an excellent balance across the midrange and treble--neither one was too prominent or too recessed.
-no obvious flaws after 4-5 hours of listening (some speakers are superlative in some ways and flawed in others--I didn't notice anything like that with the Incredarrays).
-quite transparent--revealed the gear and the recording. At one point we switched preamps, and I literally did not believe the same track was being played after the switch--but it WAS the same one; the preamp switch made such a difference. IMO this is a good sign of a speaker that does not impose its own character on the sound.

Here are the issues I noticed:
-They definitely have a sweet spot--Can't be too close. Also lateral sweet spot-not too far to one side. At 11 feet, the sweet spot was about 2 people wide, no more.
This may have been related to the room, which is not yet treated and which may perhaps be a little narrow for this speaker.
-treble detail did not appear to be the equal of a few other speakers. Don't mistake me: Treble was excellent, but I have heard what I consider to be airier/sweeter/richer treble from a few ribbons or beryllium drivers. This is obviously system-dependent and is based on only 4-5 hours of listening, but this is my impression at this point.

Hope this is useful for anyone interested in these speakers.

[Mad DOg]

thanks for sharing your impressions...i'd love to hear some of Rick's bigger speakers some day...

just curious which other speakers and ribbon drivers you felt had better detail. having just auditioned the SA-1, i felt the detail was excellent yet i have heard speakers that are airier and more transparent, but they all cost quite a bit more dough, too.  

[doug s.]

i wish someone would design a line source w/the hi-vi research ribbon tweeters.  far & away the best treble i've ever heard.  these tweets are extremely limited in wertical dispersion; have excellent horizontal dispersion.  perfect for a line source, imo...



(last one pictured is a midrange ribbon, which i haven't heard.)
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=136

doug s.

[Rick Craig]

i wish someone would design a line source w/the hi-vi research ribbon tweeters.  far & away the best treble i've ever heard.  these tweets are extremely limited in wertical dispersion; have excellent horizontal dispersion.  perfect for a line source, imo...

[img]http://www.partsexpress.com/parts ...

I've used the HiVi drivers in a few different designs and the longer ribbons can be used in a line array. Custom designs are available  

[Jon L]

I recently had a chance at an audition of the Incredarrays, thanks to the kindness of an owner. Here are my listening impressions, including the strong points (there are quite a few) and the issues (there are a couple).

-Overall, the Incredarrays are among the best speakers I've auditioned.
- in terms of midrange sound, I would compare the Incredarrays to an electrostatic line source. Detail, micro- and macrodynamics were very good.
-Overall dynamic range portrayal and loudness capacity were impressive ...

Yes, we at So Cal definitely need to get in a pair at Mad Dog's for an audition

Having heard the Fountek ribbon tweeter on SA-1, I find it to have a similar sound to similar-sized Aurum Cantus (is it the same?).  This means that it will not be a "showy" type of treble.  I'll bet some of those speakers you mention with "better" treble include JM Labs Be, big Maggies, and speakers using Raven ribbons.  These all have very impressive treble presentation, but I"ll bet the Selah's treble has the most "unnoticed" quality, meaning treble you don't notice.  Some tastes will find this kind of presentation "better," but it really comes down to personal taste.  

I confess that I tend to like my treble a bit more "spicier" myself, but I have grown to love naturalness of the Aurum Cantus G3 ribbons myself.

[doug s.]

I've used the HiVi drivers in a few different designs and the longer ribbons can be used in a line array. Custom designs are available  

ok, how about a kit w/six or eight rt2c-a's per side, coupled w/an appropriate quantity of either hi-vi's b3s's, m4n's, m6n's, f6's, or peerless 832592 or vifa P13WH-00 or ???   (the midwoofs were chosen from parts express, based upon frequency response graphs & price.)

total cabinet height ~6'...  

doug s.

[Enrico]

Mad DOg, Jon L,

Jon L nailed it! The speakers I had in mind were the JM Labs Be series and some which include the Raven tweeter. (I've heard the maggies for short periods of time only and don't recall anything special about them.)

I suppose I like a more 'spicy' treble to use your phrase.

[Enrico]

i wish someone would design a line source w/the hi-vi research ribbon tweeters.  far & away the best treble i've ever heard.  these tweets are extremely limited in wertical dispersion; have excellent horizontal dispersion.  perfect for a line source, imo...

 ...

doug s, could you describe how the hi-vi tweeters are better than (for example) the Ravens, which I think you have heard?

[jholtz]

Enrico,

I also thought Jon nailed it in his response. I've lived with the Fountek ribbons in my Omegarrays for the past several months and would offer my $.02 worth. To my ears they are the most real and natural sounding tweeters I've heard. They are ultra detailed but at the same time "delicate" the way that Rick has them voiced.

This is very room dependent of course and I might also add that a very simple resistor value change is all that is required to "spice them up" if you like a little hotter sound. They are certainly capable of the "spice" if voiced that way.

If you ever make it to the Midwest (Iowa), you're welcome to hear my Omegarrays.

Best regards,

Jim

Mad DOg, Jon L,

Jon L nailed it! The speakers I had in mind were the JM Labs Be series and some which include the Raven tweeter. (I've heard the maggies for short periods of time only and don't recall anything special about them.)

I suppose I like a more 'spicy' treble to use your phrase.

[Mad DOg]

Yes, we at So Cal definitely need to get in a pair at Mad Dog's for an audition

Having heard the Fountek ribbon tweeter on SA-1, I find it to have a similar sound to similar-sized Aurum Cantus (is it the same?).  This means that it will not be a "showy" type of treble.  I'll bet some of those speakers you mention with "better" treble include JM Labs Be, big Maggies, and speakers using Raven ribbons.  These all have very impressive treble presentation, but I"ll bet the Selah's treble has the mo ...

let's see if we can convince rick to send out a pair!

according to Rick, the Fountek measures nearly identical to the AC ribbon. you're absolutely correct that the Fountek treble is very detailed without being showy or spicy. great way to describe the differences...

[Mad DOg]

Mad DOg, Jon L,

Jon L nailed it! The speakers I had in mind were the JM Labs Be series and some which include the Raven tweeter. (I've heard the maggies for short periods of time only and don't recall anything special about them.)

I suppose I like a more 'spicy' treble to use your phrase.

i've heard the JM Labs Be tweet and the diamond tweet that is used in the Kharma lineup...very detailed but too dry, brittle, and bright for my tastes...

[doug s.]

i wish someone would design a line source w/the hi-vi research ribbon tweeters.  far & away the best treble i've ever heard.  these tweets are extremely limited in wertical dispersion; have excellent horizontal dispersion.  perfect for a line source, imo...

 ...

doug s, could you describe how the hi-vi tweeters are better than (for example) the Ravens, which I think you have heard?

enrico, no i havn't heard the ravens.  but i've heard the aurum cantus', the top jm-labs tweets (my meret re's have an earlier focal ti-inverted dome), top line dynaudio tweets, proac's new top-line tweet (excellent, btw - my proac tablette 8 reference signatures are phenomenal mini-monitors), and a host of other dynamic, planar, & ribbon speakers.

re: the hi-vi tweets, they are just so smooth, detailed, natural, airy, w/great soundstaging width & depth.  great attack & decay...  

if this is any help, i also dint particularly care for the treble presentation of the aurum-cantus tweets - too soft for my taste.  otherwise i'd have purchased the gr-research diluceo's, which i found to be supurb sounding speakers in all other respects.  these use a similar (the same?) ribbon tweeter, afaik...

hth,

doug s.

[Mad DOg]

...if this is any help, i also dint particularly care for the treble presentation of the aurum-cantus tweets - too soft for my taste. otherwise i'd have purchased the gr-research diluceo's, which i found to be supurb sounding speakers in all other respects....

doug s.,

i felt the same way about the Crits and was concerned that the SA-1 might be the same since they use a very similar tweet, but that was not the case at all. the Fountek tweet was very smooth and detailed but not soft in any way. at least to my ears. so i think it's in the crossover implementation. it's still not gonna have the "bite" of some of the other tweeters mentioned by Enrico.

[Enrico]

doug s., thanks for your input--that does help.

What speakers are you using now?

[JoshK]

I imagine it has as much to do with implementation as the tweeter use, in the case of AC/Fountek.  Maybe not, but I think the feedback some of us gave about the RC3R might have helped Rick balance the SA1 so that the tweeter wasn't too soft.

[Jon L]

Just to recount my crossover experience with Aurum Cantus Ribbons.  I initially had Aurum Cantus G2 ribbons (similar size to Fountek in SA-1) installed in my custom speakers with custom x-over.  I found it to be very natural but a bit soft for my tastes, coming from Focal inverted titanium domes.  

I did have my speakers measured then in front of my eyes(ears) with pro equipment, and it was truly RULER-FLAT with benign impedance.  It just had subjectively "soft" sound.  

I further studied the crossover design and parts.  I ended up going with a bigger ribbon (G3), taking out a couple of capacitors and resistors that were not absolutely necessary (used for baffle step correction), and using solid-core silver wire instead of solid-core copper wire to wire the tweeter.  

Now my tweeters have the naturalness that's the strength of Aurum Cantus, but it sounds much, much better to my ears.  And it still measures ruler flat...

My point is that when using Aurum Cantus type of ribbons, you want a very minimal x-over with high quality parts, and a strong consideration for solid silver wire should be given  

[doug s.]

due to personal situation, my present system is down, but i was using meret re's, well-built two-way monitors which consist of a focal inwerted-dome tweet & the 7" eton midwoofer - same midwoof, yust larger, that gr-research uses in their diluceo & criterion.  these are kick-ass drivers, imo.  i also had my proac tablette 8 ref-sigs in that rig, & they were also excellent.  coin-flip as to which one was better.  i tink the meret's had the edge, but then again that room was quite large, at 26x38x8.5  outboard x-over & subs were also in use.  i have pics of that rig in the gallery (pg 13?). i certainly preferred the overall presentation of both these speakers to the criterions & the diluceos, which both graced my listening room.  while i certainly enjoyed the gr-research offerings, they were yust too soft & lacking in ultimate detail for my tastes.

presently, i am listening to the proacs in a smaller simpler rig in a ~14x24x8 room, run full-range, w/much smaller subs being run, rolled off at 24db/octave at 55hz.  preamp is a creek passive obh-12, feeding an ase z-man tube buffer stage.  amplification has varied from korsun u2 integrated, to revox b251 integrated (w/and w/o its preamp), and thule audio ia100 integrated (also w/and w/o its preamp).  but, yust two days ago, i received a fully-modded melos mat180, still under warranty from m.a.r.  i done good here - this thing is fantastic - 180wpc of pure triode, & i got it for less than the cost of the mods!   anyone looking for a mondo tube amp needs to add melos to their list.  (or even if yure looking for a mondo s/s amp?)

ok, now back to speakers.  due to my fondness of the hi-vi ribbon tweets, i bought a bargain-priced pair of coincident research victory's, which use a custom iteration of the tweet i liked so much in the swan m1.2.  i expect delivery early next week.  israel blume assured me they are not nearly as directional in the wertical plane (tho i've heard others say differently), and they're supposedly even *better* in other respects to the stock iteration.  i certainly expect the rest of the presentation to be better than the swans i used to own.  i will report back...  

doug s.

[Enrico]

Jon L, I believe Rick does offer an upgraded crossover for the Incredarrays, but I have no idea whether it includes solid silver or any of the other changes you made in yours.

doug s, yes, please do report about the Coincidents. I'm interested in any and all ribbon tweeters.

[Rick Craig]

I've used the HiVi drivers in a few different designs and the longer ribbons can be used in a line array. Custom designs are available  

ok, how about a kit w/six or eight rt2c-a's per side, coupled w/an appropriate quantity of either hi-vi's b3s's, m4n's, m6n's, f6's, or peerless 832592 or vifa P13WH-00 or ???   (the midwoofs were chosen from parts express, based upon frequency response graphs & price.)

total cabinet height ~6'...  

doug s.

My experience with HiVi's woofers wasn't very positive, one of the worst drivers I've ever measured. The planar ribbons are o.k. but their quality control has been inconsistent. The Fountek ribbons don't cost that much more and they perform better.

Rick

[Rick Craig]

let's see if we can convince rick to send out a pair!

The cabinets for the demo pair are coming along  very well. The cabinetmaker I'm working with is very meticulous and the speakers are going to look great.

I expect to be shipping them out in late October. Due to the cost involved there will be a deposit needed which will be fully refunded once the speakers arrive to the next listener. I'm still working on the logistics of shipping these from one point to another since it could be rather expensive.

Rick