[lonewolfny42]

I'm trying to generate a list of speakers that fall into these two categories, i.e. ones more suited to a particular genre of music. This list will hopefully help me in determining what speakers I'll buy next. Let's keep it in the $2500 and under range new or used.

BUMP....So not to lose track of the question.

[cjr888]

...and room size?

[gongos]

The reason I made this list is I went to go listen to a pair of Meadowlark Shearwater Hot Rods. I currently own a pair of VMPS 626r's. I played Iggy Pop's China Girl, a nasty mid-70's recording, on the Shearwater's and was less than impressed. The sounds was bloated and soft, especially when compared to the 626r's. It seemed like the Shearwater's were trying to transform Iggy into easy listening crooner, taking away all the music's urgency and edge. The Shearwater's seemed to be a speaker made for specific music - jazz, vocals, classical, though I'd put my 626r's up against them in any of those genre's. It was shocking to hear how different these speakers sounded on the same recording.

[Zero]

Nathan,

Indeed your list is very good.  I've had quite a few experiences with the VR-2's, and provided you give them the right equipment, they are decent.

However, none of the above are capable of excelling in every regard.  Personal taste aside, a pair of vintage $250 dollar Polk Audio SDA's will trounce the living daylights outta  all three of those speakers when it comes to producing a "live" sound.  All three will also fail horribly to capture the brute force and power of the 2000's.

I am not protesting your choice and your taste.  I am not questioning the quality of the products you have suggested.  I am instead pointing out how unfair it is to assume that a speaker (an affordable one) can take the reigns in every aspect and for every genre.  That is simply absurd. Every product in one way or another will be defeated, and quite horribly so, by another product in one aspect or another.

Gongos,

If acoustics and jazz is your fancy, please take the time to check out the Jean-Marie Reynaud Twin MK3 bookshelf loud-speakers. These respond very well to tube equipment, and are boarder line magical for music of that sort.

Notables would be the Spendor S6e's, and the Totem Acoustic Sttaf's.

[Carlman]

Definately agree on the Gallo Reference 3
also:
Von Schweikert VR-2
Devore Fidelity Gibbon 8

I have yet to hear anything else at around $2500 that can touch these three speakers.  In my experience, they work in small (i.e. 11x11) to...

The Gallo's in an 11x11?  Really?  I have an ~ 11x13 size room.  I've always liked the way these looked but didn't think they'd make it in a small room.  I had Revel F30's that were way too big for the room.... both in sound and imaging... and they were 3-way's with 10" woof's...

(BTW, I wouldn't buy them for another year or more.... I'm not looking right now, just surprised that they'd sound good in a small room)

[JoshK]

I happed to heard the Gallo Ref 3's in a 10x12' room on a denon integrated with denon 2900 source.  Sounded awful.  I didn't expect a lot from this dealer's showroom.  Not sure what was to blame but I admit that is utterly killed my interest in these speakers.

[doug s.]

gongos, you need to yust get a pair of vmps subs (decide on size of sub by room size - ask brian if yure not sure), a quality outboard x-over, and you'll be able to get quality sound, from stringed quartets, to live-recorded rock shows, to symphony orchestras.  certainly with your present speakers, & also with a plethora of other speakers.  this will free you to concentrate on other aspects of a speakers' sound that appeals to you.

example:  i had my diminutive (10.5"h x 9'd x 6"w) proac tablette 8 reference signatures in my rig, & they could easily fill the room with concert-level little feat waiting for columbus rock, as well as float out an airy patricia barbour song...  this in a room ~26x38x8.5.

ymmv,

doug s.

[nathanm]

Perhaps speakers with a wider dispersion pattern do not perform as well in smaller areas as more focused\beamy speakers.  I would second Zybar's recomendation.  That is what I found with my own Nucleus Solos.  

The Gallos do great with both nancy boy jingle jangle music as with death metal.  I dunno what it is, but Gallo is definitely doing something right in my opinion.  For having a 6" woofer in a 12" sphere the bass extention and punch is amazing, and that's even with a candy-assed damping factor tube amp!  With solid state there's even more grunt.  However, soundstage-wise they didn't come alive in my 13x14' room, but in the slightly larger and more open living room space I was able to space them a few feet further apart they really sang. The same scenario occured with some omnidirectional Decware speakers I had.  Confined to a small space they just didn't want to do their thing.  Stand-mounted monitors seem to be the best bet for small rooms.

It has a lot to do with placement and dispersion IMO.  Small triangle works for jazz\vocals, big triangle for orchestral\rock etc. That and move as much crap out of your room as you can.  Helps in both real and mental ways.

[zybar]

Nathan,

Indeed your list is very good.  I've had quite a few experiences with the VR-2's, and provided you give them the right equipment, they are decent.

However, none of the above are capable of excelling in every regard.  Personal taste aside, a pair of vintage $250 dollar Polk Audio SDA's will trounce the living daylights outta  all three of those speakers when it comes to producing a "live" sound.  All three will also fail horribly to capture the brute force and power of the 2000's.

I am not p ...

I have a pair of Twin MK II's that I use in my living room system.  They are very musical and a joy to listen to.  Their size has some very obvious limitations.  At one point for fun I tried them in the main system being augmented by a pair of REL Strata subs.  That combo wasn't as musically satisfying as my Silverline Sonata II's or VMPS RM 40's but it was still quite good.  It also gave a person who doesn't have a dedicated room a way to place things where they sound and look best.

If you bought everything used, you could get the Twins + REL subs for under $2500.  

George

[Mad DOg]

The Gallo's in an 11x11?  Really?  I have an ~ 11x13 size room.  I've always liked the way these looked but didn't think they'd make it in a small room...

i don't think the gallos would work in a small room. the super wide dispersion tweeter would be bouncing sound all over the place unless you it was heavily treated.

[Mad DOg]

I happed to heard the Gallo Ref 3's in a 10x12' room on a denon integrated with denon 2900 source.  Sounded awful.  I didn't expect a lot from this dealer's showroom.  Not sure what was to blame but I admit that is utterly killed my interest in these speakers.

probably both room and front end...JoshK, what type of sound do you gravitate towards? warmer speakers? detailed and analytical? or neutral? depending on where your preferences lie in the spectrum would determine if you liked the Gallos.

[Zero]

Nathan,

There was no baiting going on here.  Fact is, this conversation would be taking place regardless.  We have fundamentally different beliefs that are backed up by different experiences, expectations, and taste.  This hobby contains many elements, one of those being the discussion of audio whether it is according to your beliefs or not. Taking to consideration that neither one of us will persuade the other through text, perhaps it would be more prudent to sit back and enjoy a healthy exchange of ideas.

Reading through your responses, it appears as though you somehow got the idea that I claimed the two aforementioned Polk Audio speakers could “trounce” Von and Gallo in an all-out dual.  For the record, I never made such a claim, nor did I conceive of doing so. I also never once stated or implied the speakers from your list were not versatile and capable in most regards. I did however claim that in short, they are not the end-all, be-all in every aspect to reproduced sound.  I sincerely fail to see how anyone could make such a bold claim, but it is all opinion just the same.  I only ask that you not question my information when yours is equally as questionable.  

My time with the Gallo’s was experienced while on the job at a personal residence.  Their strange appearance culled up my audiophile instinct to momentarily take the time out to give these a listen. The owner was more than pleased to provide me with a demo.  Indeed, they were fine speakers that had plenty of breathing room in his very spacious (20x30x15?) room.  I was thoroughly enjoying the experience, though I do not recall what he was running them on. I wanted to spend more time with the speakers but I had a job to do.

I have had more time to spend with the Von S. VR-2’s.  I have heard them on various show room floors on equipment such as Denon *yek*, Arcam, Musical Fidelity, and Mark Levinson.  I was not as impressed with these.  Far from it in fact, but I still recognized that they were decent and could see how people could enjoy their sound. In fact, I have considered the VR-1’s for my computer system.  

Funny thing is, I purchased these vintage Polk SDA2B speakers on consignment from the Von S. dealer.  Before taking these speakers home *which needed minor repair first*, I asked the dealer to hook them up to make sure they were functioning.  We chose the room where all the good stuff was.  Martin Logan, Aerial, and Von S.  Once we got the 2B’s hooked up, I threw on some jazz.  Everyone was immediately awe struck at the sound coming from these speakers.  Everyone, myself included did not expect these vintage Polk’s to compete in any way shape or form to their given company.  Indeed, they were right at home.  The associates admitted to me that they disregarded the Polks as complete crap, especially given the skeptical publications in the late 80’s.  Now if I were nit picking I would say the other speakers had plenty of strengths over the Polks, but when I flipped on Lynyrd Skynryds “Then and now”, the SDA’s stole the show.  We just could not believe their HUGE, room enveloping sound stage. The type of sound that makes your head turn.  We then switched back to the Von S. VR-2s and promptly cringed.  Now does that mean that I believe the SDA’s were better speakers? No. It just means they had their own forte and did it very, VERY well.

As for the 2000’s.  This speaker was built and designed to rock your world with clean, loud sound.  Sporting four 8’’ powered sub-woofers, and highly sensitive tri lam tweets with 6.5 inch mid-range’s, these things could do just that. Are they in the same quality league as the Gallos and Vons? Of course not.  But for their application, they clearly are the better in that ONE regard.  I parted with my 2000’s, as have many others I know, and every one of us regrets that decision due to that one aspect they brought to the table that most other speakers just cannot seem to capture.

The strength of the Gallo and Von S. speakers is the quality of sound you get with virtually every genre. But that alone doesn’t mean they will be the best in every genre for their price point (under or over).  I would also throw the Totem Sttafs in the mix as one of those speakers that can do it all, and do it all well.  

Do not take any of this personally, Nathan.  I am offering a different opinion and perspective.  Some will agree, and some wont.  That’s just how it goes..  in the end we can only hope to find the sound that appeals to us most.

Cheers,

Sean

[woodsyi]

I have had Polk SDAII's from the early 80's and while they are good speakers, they don't come close to VMPS RM 40's.  SDA's do not go much below 35 Hz and the Neo ribbons on VMPS speakers are better then the silver tweeters and the dynamic mids on the Polk SDA's for vocal presentation.   At the top, super tweeters on RM 40's go beyond where SDAs roll off.  While SDAs represent great value at ~$300 they are not in the class of VMPS RM 40's.  I can't speak for the other speakers since I have never compared them as I have between these two.

[JoshK]

probably both room and front end...JoshK, what type of sound do you gravitate towards? warmer speakers? detailed and analytical? or neutral? depending on where your preferences lie in the spectrum would determine if you liked the Gallos.

Most definitely both I would assume.  The room I had given credit for the one note bass, I just wasn't captured at all by the mids up. I will have to retry them someday in a more serious setting.  They sounded hazy, veiled and slow.  Just not what I expected to hear is all.

FWIW, I probably gravitate to the open, fast and detailed side of "neutral".  Nothing else to me sounds natural.

[Mad DOg]

from my experience, i feel Von Schweikerts need tubes driving them to sound their best. with solid state, they can sound dry and sterile. with tubes, they sound very balanced and seductive.

[Mad DOg]

Most definitely both I would assume.  The room I had given credit for the one note bass, I just wasn't captured at all by the mids up. I will have to retry them someday in a more serious setting.  They sounded hazy, veiled and slow.  Just not what I expected to hear is all.

FWIW, I probably gravitate to the open, fast and detailed side of "neutral".  Nothing else to me sounds natural.

i think that you heard a bad demo...the big strength i heard w/ the Gallo was the highs. fast, smooth, detailed and distortion free output at 110dBs. great for violin and guitar pieces.

the mids were *very* lean IMO and for this reason did not engage me. not very good for vocals. cool, hollow and recessed sounding.

the bass was *ok*. not as fast, dynamic and punchy as i've heard from other speakers. a good deal of overhang which could've been room induced. side firing woofs require alot of experimentation to get right. i can understand your 1 note bass comment...

anywho, just my $0.02

[Mad DOg]

All dealers and manufacturers,

the rules state that you may not recommend brands you manufacture or sell outside of your own circle or market square. i would appreciate it if you would abide by the rules and refrain from doing so in the future. i know it's tough because often you choose to carry a line because you like how it performs. thanks for your cooperation.  

[8thnerve]

I did however claim that in short, they are not the end-all, be-all in every aspect to reproduced sound. I sincerely fail to see how anyone could make such a bold claim, but it is all opinion just the same.

I think I see now where we digressed.  My second post was in reference to my first in which I state:

"I certainly maintain that the best speakers I have heard excell at ALL types of music."

"a speaker that makes a bad recording sound good in one genre, and a good recording sound bad in another, is just not something I am willing to live with, especially now when there are so many INCREDIBLE speakers that sound fantastic with all genres for so little money."

and most importantly:

"At this point in the industry, if you are spending over $2000 on speakers, they should sound incredible with ALL types of music, have a full range response (I mean that, using a frequency limited monitor in this price range is simply losing out. Bass problems can be fixed with proper acoustic treatment, no matter how bad the room is, and music happens down to 20Hz, whether there is a drum or just a soprano. Any speaker at this price should be comfortable at around 30Hz) and offer superior dynamics, imaging, and aesthetics.

I just don't think you have accept anything less these days."

I did not maintain that such speakers are the BEST in any of their fields, but simply excellent in each regard to a great degree.  Someone will always find one area that another speaker excells in, but my point is that I don't think that you have to settle for that in today's marketplace, that some speakers are so good at everything in their price point, they lead to an overall more satisfying musical experience than a speaker that is excellent at one thing.

I have seen it time and time again.  If you get a product that does incredibly well in one area that you value, you'll get it and listen to your entire music collection revelling in that strength.  Then at some point, you'll want more of attribute X, and your search will start all over again and you'll travel down the same roads to a different conclusion.  It is never-ending and perhaps what makes this otherwise tiny niche industry function, but with the used marketplace so viable, it threatens to not only cost the consumer more, but put the product manufacturers out of business by rewarding a sound that is different rather than correct in the short term.  I salute these products that I mentioned because they lead to music appreciation before attribute appreciation.  And I think that this attitude will not only be beneficial to the consumer emotionally and financially, but to the manufacturer and the strength of the industry.

After you asked about specific speakers, I listed and described them the only way I can, subjectively based on my experience.  It was written as opinion with supporting opinion.  But my views on those products do not change what I believe to be a truth, in that there are products that can satisfy on so many levels, you don't HAVE to settle for ones that will encourage a frequent speaker mutiny.  If that's what you like about the hobby, great!  My viewpoint is for those who want to stop futzing with what gear to get and sit down and be moved by music.  And if it is not those three for some people, there is a speaker out there now that will satisfy you on all levels at a given price point, and that price gets lower and lower every day.  You just have to find it, and for many (very many), these three will fit the bill spledidly.

For me personally, the X's overall strengths outweight the incredible dynamics of the Avantgarde DUOs, the pristine detail of the Wilson Watt/Puppys, the spooky palpable midrange presence of the Magnepans, the immediacy of the Martin-Logans and Innersounds, and the "live" sound of the best Dynaudio Studio Monitors.  I can honestly say that if forced to choose any one speaker at this point at no cost, to live with for the rest of my life, I would take the Xs, hands down.  I can say that definitively as I have had all these speakers.  And all this is based on sonic performance.

And from now on I'll try not to get goaded into recommending a product I happen to carry.  I promise.  

[doug s.]

All dealers and manufacturers,

the rules state that you may not recommend brands you manufacture or sell outside of your own circle or market square. i would appreciate it if you would abide by the rules and refrain from doing so in the future. i know it's tough because often you choose to carry a line because you like how it performs. thanks for your cooperation.  

personally, i do not see anything wrong w/a mfr or distributor or dealer recommending a brand they sell - as long as it is clearly stated in the post.

ymmv,

doug s.

[Zero]

Woody,

The early SDA 2 model dropped off fairly quickly and really needed a sub for full range performance.  In stock form, it is equipped with the SL2000 tweeter, which is a very bad tweeter.  I find it as no surprise that you enjoyed the VMPS RM40’s.  Of course, at well over a 4k difference, I would expect nothing less!  Enjoy them, you got some real quality speaks!

Nathan,

I see we are on the same general field here, but somehow keep getting our signals mixed.  I do concur that in today’s market, at the indicated budget, you should not have to settle for anything less than exceptional.  Now what exceptional is, well that’s up for the person to decide.  

While I too have seen the vicious circle of choice occur within this hobby (having been victim of it myself many times), I have run into individuals who truly do not care to own a wonder speaker that can do it all.  They want a speaker that can play what they like to hear, and play that style of music better than all the rest in their budget.  I am certain that as a dealer you have ran into that type quite a few times. The person who started this thread may or may not be that type.  Like in any public forum, you get a wide variety of answers with different and sometimes completely opposite suggestions.

Personally, I listen to all types of music and often in succession.  I require a speaker that can do it all, and do it all VERY well for a price that I can afford.  After some searching, I believe I have found those speakers. I know where you are coming from Nathan, but I also have run into people who aren’t looking for the same thing I am.  Some may buy the speaker that suits their genre best and be content for many many years, others may find a gaping hole they would like to fill and thusly start that circle you described.  Either way, it is a learning process for the person.

Also, I don’t believe anyone would take offense to you recommending a product you carry.  If it’s a quality piece and you sincerely believe it will quinch their thirst, there is no wrong in that.  Obviously the Gallos and Von S. speakers have a reputation that proceeds them, so there is no questioning their capabilities.

In the end, it looks like we crossed words and agree on more than what may be intelligible on the text side of things. In the meantime, on top of your suggestions for versatile speakers, I would recommend the Totem Acoustic Sttafs,  Spendor S8’s, and Dynaudio Contour 1.8 M2’s.  For strictly jazz, I would also like to encourage looking into Audio Note speakers.

Cheers,

Sean