Looking for new CD player

Greg P · « **on:** 23 Sep 2004, 09:39 pm »

Hello to everyone Marbles, and the gang, Ive been out of the hobby for a bit over a year but have just gotten back into things. I just purchased some VMPS 626R w/ FST and I am building a system around them. I am getting closer to where I want to be, but I think I still need a little better PRAT for the type of music I listen to. From my conclusions with hearing all my equipment in other systems except the modded pioneer player, I believe it is what I need to change to get my system where I want it. Currently my system consists of the following:

Speakers: VMPS 626R
Amp: -ASL 1003 DT
CD: -Pioneer 727 (Stan Warren Mod)
IC: -Stan Warren
Sp. Cables- Maple shade golden helix

Music: Mainly rock, jazz, and mixes of others

My budget: $700 - $800

Where I want my system to go: I want to have better PRAT and zip in the mid band and midrange while still leaving it warm and musical, and to add immediacy.

Players I have heard and thoughts:

Rega Planet 2000: Nice warm juicy presentation, with good timing, but really lacked a lot of detial

Shanling?: Sparkly, sweet, not much detail either

Norh CD-1: Great orgainic presentation, liquid midrange, with still pretty good PRAT and immediacy. I would buy this player and be happy if I could find one. only issue is reliablility.

Tjoeb 99: Pretty good detail, soundstage, but outclassed by nOrh. Makes me not want to bother to check out the new Tjoeb.

My ideas on what would fit the bill, ( would like your opininons)

Naim CD 3.5/5 (used)
Jolida JD-100
Heart 6000
Eeastern Electic Minimax (used)
Musical Fidelity ?(used)

Any other ideas would be appreciated. I am going to try to audition the Naim, mainly because I have heard a lot of times none Naim amps dont always match well. A lot of the others I am not able to audition so I am really looking for advice. Thanks

8thnerve · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Sep 2004, 09:46 pm »

I recommend the Naim obviously for PRAT as they pretty much define the category, but you won't find a CD5 for that money, maybe a 3.5. The Jolida doesn't impress too much as far as I am concerned, it sounds very nice, but that is about it. (I used to sell them so I have much experience there). The MiniMax is a great player!!! At its new low price, I think it is hard to go wrong. I highly recommend the Arcam CD-73 and the Cambridge 640C as well, but I sell them so for an unbiased opinion you'll have to look elsewhere.

(I would take the MiniMax with upgraded tubes over both of these though, although a bit more expensive)

Best of luck!

BeeBop · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 09:46 am »

What tubes would you put in the Minimax?

BobM · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 01:03 pm »

I've heard great things about the new Lector, available for about $3000 I believe.

Then again, why not get yourself a used Benchmark DAC-1 for about $800?

Enjoy,
Bob

ctviggen · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 01:24 pm »

What's "PRAT"?

mcgsxr · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 01:33 pm »

pace rhythm and timing, as I recall. Often associated with British gear.

Mark

Carlman · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 02:01 pm »

I have an EE Minimax w/ tubes that sounds very nice. Bill sent me a pair of 7dj8's to try in it and I've been pretty happy with them but, I'd like to try some Radio Technica's. I've enjoyed those in the preamp so, I'm thinking they may do well here. I've noticed the tubes don't make as dramatic of an impact on the CDP as they do on the preamp...

Recently I added Herbie's grungebuster cd mat and I'm really amazed at how much more natural it sounds. (It's still a 'tweak' type of change but it made a bigger difference than most tweaks I've tried.) The slight digital harshness was removed to almost nill, rendering a more natural presentation. There's no more or less detail, just a more natural sound. It's kind of an annoyance to use but I'm really happy with the EE, especially with the little mat.

Levi · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 03:25 pm »

Quote from: Greg P

Hello to everyone Marbles, and the gang, Ive been out of the hobby for a bit over a year but have just gotten back into things. I just purchased some VMPS 626R w/ FST and I am building a system around them. I am getting closer to where I want to be, but I think I still need a little better PRAT for the type of music I listen to. From my conclusions with hearing all my equipment in other systems except the modded pioneer player, I believe it is what I need to change to get my system where I want it. Curren ...

I currently own and would recommend the Modwright Sony DVP-NS999ES w/tube output stage (see picture of tubes sticking out below). This player will give you the details and warm seductive sound you are looking for. At $1750 for mods + player. You may want to audition the NJ4000 @$600-700used.

Marbles · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 04:21 pm »

What's an NJ4000?

woodsyi · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 04:50 pm »

How would this compare to the stock version?

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1101000709

alotaklipsch · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 04:56 pm »

I am using amperex 6dj8 orange globe A frame, in my system these bettered the bugle boys, mullards, siemans, tungsols, and tungsrams, even bettering the esoteric tubes. They are pretty reasonable too.

djbnh · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 10:09 pm »

I'm trying to stay around the $800 figure originally cited, so I offer the following impressions.

I own and like the JD-100; you may be able to pick one up used, and if you're trying to keep you in the $800 ballpark you'll need to purchase one used. With my unit I did the following after-purchase upgrades: 1) a cryoed Chris VenHaus Flavor 1 PC, which brings in both the bass and upper registers; 2) Sylvania Gold Label JHS 5751WA triple mica blackplates, which make this CPD, in my system, scary good for the $; 3) a 22 lb. granite slab supported by Vibrapods, the Jolida sits on top of the granite, which helps reduce any vibrations to the unit; 4) a 12 lb. piece of marble on the top (resting on coasters), for even more vibration reduction; and 5) Herbie's Hal-O 9 tube dampers in place of the stock tube covers. Please remember this is what works in my system, with my components. Results with your components may vary. In my system, I'm very impressed with the resolution, air around instuments, bass-mid-treble response (bass dramatically improves w/VenHaus PC; Sylvania 5751s mentioned above do wonders for the imagining, soundstage width-depth, mids and high end).

Also, I do use Herbie's Grungebuster. It makes small but noticeable improvements.

Furthermore, I applied Walker SST ($70/small jar) to the tube pins, RCA plugs, other system pieces, that made this unit come totally alive. Well worth the cost. See The Critic's Circle for more comments.

Best of luck with your budget and decision making. I recommend trying as many units with your system as possible, if practical.

Levi · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 11:52 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

What's an NJ4000?

Ooops that's njoe tjoeb 4000.

Marbles · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Sep 2004, 11:59 pm »

Quote from: Levi

Quote from: Marbles
What's an NJ4000?

Ooops that's njoe tjoeb 4000.

Thanks, I had a few Njoe Tjoeb '98's, and still have one. Pretty nice for the money decks.

Mad DOg · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Sep 2004, 12:10 am »

Levi,

Are those your ER Audio isolation platforms? if so, what do you think about them? Thanks...

Levi · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Sep 2004, 03:06 am »

Quote from: Mad DOg

Levi,

Are those your ER Audio isolation platforms? if so, what do you think about them? Thanks...

They are not mine. They are Rupeshs' aka rkapadia@ROOP. It works as you can see the equipment are on the floor.

Mad DOg · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Sep 2004, 03:12 am »

Quote from: Levi

Quote from: Mad DOg
Levi,

Are those your ER Audio isolation platforms? if so, what do you think about them? Thanks...

They are not mine. They are Rupeshs' aka rkapadia@ROOP. It works as you can see the equipment are on the floor.

according to their website, they are supposed to do more than just sit on the floor...

http://www.eraudio.com/production/platforms/

"The Space Harmonizer has several years of creation and development history. It all began with a violin soundboard testing and tuning laboratory once visited by guys from the amplifier development lab, who asked to give them a wooden support for a pilot amplifier model. Failing anything suitable, they were given a violin soundboard workpiece. The testing of the amplifier showed excellent results and everyone was pleased with the fine sound. At that time none paid heed to the support. After some time, the next amplifier modification with components of higher quality had been prepared, from which everyone expected even more impressive results. However, we were extremely disappointed when we found that the sound of the new model was much worse than that of the preceding one! Everyone was shocked and nobody could explain the reason of what has happened. It was only after some time that we have noticed that the first model was installed on the violin soundboard workpiece. We repeated the test with the new model installed on the wooden violin soundboard workpiece and we were amazed by the result – so much richer and more interesting became the sound! Thus, this discovery was a start for a permanent series of experiments that resulted in the creation of a unique product called the Space Harmonizer.

Now we use the wood of hundred-year-age Siberian cedar to make the Space Harmonizer. After delivery, the wood is exposed to long-term multistage drying and then resonant bars are made. Each finished resonant bar is selected by high-skilled experts by means of ear testing. The selected group of bars is glued together and finished. Any minor change of bar dimensions affects the resonant properties; therefore, the master should have a special capability of foreseeing how the bars would resonate in the finished article. People doing this work are unique specialists. It is their intuition and vast experience only that allows us to produce articles with required parameters. After all, even these great efforts cannot ensure the output of finished articles more than 14 percent that, regretfully, does not enable us to maintain lower prices for the Space Harmonizer.

The application of the Harmonizer produces an effect of expanding and deepening the sound scene and increasing the soft sound resolution. The sound of musical instruments becomes more articulated and clear. The timbre of instruments and voice acquires greater naturalness and emotionality. The sound of the entire set becomes continuous as that of violin.

Please be assured that the Space Harmonizer is worthy of your expenses. You get the result that would be impossible to obtain any other way. The application of the Space Harmonizer raises the sound of your set several levels higher and makes it comparable with more expensive sets.

Yours sincerely,

Valery Pankov"

Levi · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Sep 2004, 03:17 am »

Quote from: Mad DOg

according to their website, they are supposed to do more than just sit on the floor...

http://www.eraudio.com/production/platforms/

"The Space Harmonizer has several years of creation and development history. It all began with a violin soundboard testing and tuning laboratory once visited by guys from the amplifier development lab, who asked to give them a wooden support for a pilot amplifier model. Failing anything suitable, they were given a violin soundboard workpiece. The testing of the amp ...

There are also three small brass cones underneath the player.

Inscrutable · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Sep 2004, 11:32 am »

Greg,
I'm not convinced you are going to get a really significant improvement with any $800 one-box solution. If you can count the proceeds of a 727 sale, and maybe bump a bit more, into the 1500 range (and used) ...

Then it opens up choices such as Resolution Audio CD55, Cary 308T, Naim CD5, Meridian 508.24, maybe even an Audiomeca Mephisto II.

Staying at your price point, I like Bob's suggestion of an outboard DAC. If you are after PRAT, you might consider a non-oversampling version, such as Audio Note, Nixon, or AckDack. Definitely a different flavor from up/oversampling with digital filtering.

Or even better, forget about your digital front end, and come over to the dark side (some would say come BACK FROM the dark side) and get yourself a phono rig

Gregp · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Sep 2004, 03:17 pm »

Thanks for all the suggestions guys,

I have not thought about an outboard DAC because I have been told that you really cant make up the Timing if the transpot is not top notch. I dont know, people say the pioneers are good transports, but I think there not my flavor. Even though the pioneer has lots of detail and huge soundstaging I might be happier with a Rega Planet. I am not very educated on the technical jargon of CD players. If you would be able educate me on how these DAC's (nixon, DACAC, Benchmark) could help I will listen.

Some questions about a couple of players.

How is the PRAT of the Eastern Electric? How does it compare to a benchmark entry player like the Rega Planet 2000.

How are the Naims compatiblility? Can I use the naim CD3.5 or CD5 with my ASL 1003 DT, I heard they have specail connections?

Also does anyone know of anywhere I can audition these brands? This seems to be a reccurring problem. I know everyone says audition as many as you can, but the reality is I probobly wont be able to audition any of these pieces. The VMPS 626R and the ASL 1003 I did audition, but I had to drive 4 hours to Chichago to hear them. Unfortunately I dont even think I will be able to hear these pieces if I drive that far. If anyone is willing to home audition I would be interested? Thanks again for the advice, but I guess with a lot of things in this neurotic hobby the more you know, the more confused you get. Right now I think the naim is the best gamble for my tastes (and unfortunately a pricier one) but again a gamble without hearing