[terry parr]

i think we need more articles in this vein.  the calm, even-handed tone of this piece is about right for a general-interest website. and in the end, kaplan simply invites people to...listen.  for themselves. 

a good article where someone who knows the difference that higher-quality gear can really make, while at the same time not sounding insulting or condescending to anyone reading it (who may not have ever been motivated to make much of an effort to listen for themselves and compare different audio gear to discover any differences, hopefully for the better.)


http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2015/02/audiophiles_neil_young_s_pono_has_brought_unfair_scorn_for_lovers_of_high.2.html

and if you're unfamiliar with the slate layout, by clicking on the comments section down on the lower-right of the page (the white "comments balloon" against the red background with the number of comments on it), the comments will then come up on top of the page that you're on. 

hopefully, the comments on this article that are measured and sensible will outweigh the "other" ones.  (although, sometimes the "other" ones can be funny, in a perverse sort of way). 

and then, we have to remember that there are people that just simply arn't going to hear certain differences.  and, for those people of course you're crazy for spending good money on more expensive cables.  and so it goes. 

but maybe kaplan's article will accomplish something by giving some who read it some things to think about.             

[terry parr]

oh, and i need to quickly add (before the thundering herd of people who don't believe that cables make any difference and i can hear the distant sound of them approaching from far away already) that in my latest audition of different interconnects out of five different pairs of cables that i was comparing, i ended up choosing the next-to-least expensive pair. 

so, more expensive doesn't always mean "better."  this particular pair just seemed to work best within my current set-up.  of course, one of the more expensive pairs would have worked better in someone else's set-up, depending on their associated gear.   

i shouldn't even feel the need to make that qualification (at least not on this forum, anyway). 

but, i do.     

[wushuliu]

It's a good article. Contempt really is the operative word. There are so many ways to criticize the hypocrisy and double standards of the objectivist mindset but it would just be a waste of time because as Fred states they are not willing to listen. They just want to hate. It's bizarre. They refuse to acknowledge how *obsessed* they are with ridiculing audiophiles; going over the same arguments over and over and over and over. They will literally post all day long on a stupid little cable thread instead of just moving on or ignoring like any sane person would do. It's frickin' creepy.

 

[wushuliu]

i shouldn't even feel the need to make that qualification (at least not on this forum, anyway). 

but, i do.   

Exactly you shouldn't but you do because you are already trained to be defensive. Key word is defensive. You know what's coming. And  a lot of these guys (cause, well, it's all guys) love it, they can smell the fear. They're not interested in a dialogue. They're not interested sharing experience. They just want an excuse to express the contempt.

[vinylfreeze]

Very well articulated article. Definitely worth the read.
For some great entertainment value be sure and take a gander through the comments following the
article. Priceless methinks

Thanks so much for the great read Fred.

[terry parr]

well, at last check the comments on this article was up to 800+.  and the exchanges that kaplan has had with a few of the commentors has been handled well by him for the most part.  give him credit for being willing to wade into this angry crowd (a lot of whom seem to be carrying lit torches and some appear to have pitchforks).

you kinda want to jump in and help kaplan as some of his responses to some of his detractors reminds me of how it must have felt to defend galileo when he said that the earth does indeed revolve around the sun, even though the angry mob is convinced that the earth is the center of the universe.  heresy!  (which, literally it was).   

i would've jumped in already and added at least a little something, hopefully being one of the voices of carefully considered reason as i sense the crowd becoming more snarling and intense, but i've never joined facebook (and in order to comment on any slate article, you need a facebook account).  fred kaplan is a smart guy.  he doesn't need me to defend him.  he's capable of doing that himself.  but you still feel for the guy in a situation like this. 

this type of steam-rolling, mob mentality (by a majority that "knows" the truth, and anyone that disagrees with the majority is a crazy heretic) can get a bit creepy.     

seriously, it's disappointing that some people can be so sure of themselves in an area where they haven't investigated the truth of the matter for themselves.  like the comment from the guy who said different amps make no difference to the sound?  "they either amplify the signal with or without distortion."  but then, he goes on to smugly deride those who have said that they can indeed hear differences between amplifiers. 

how some people can be so...obtuse.  and then go on to be obstinate in their un-founded opinion.  kaplan i think intentionally ignored this one. he either thought, "this guy is obviously so thick that he can't be reached, or he's a troll having his idea of fun."  either way, i noticed kaplan didn't respond.  and the amp comment was very close to one of his responses, so i think kaplan saw it.   

either way i admire kaplan for going in with a pen (while everyone else seems to be carrying swords), but you have to wonder:  is he building a bridge, or making a gulf wider?  hopefully working to bridge a gap and create some give-and-take understanding.  (because some of the comments are encouraging as some people sound like reasonable people who make up their own minds).   but judging by most of the comments, the open-minded are vastly out-numbered, here).   
 


it really is a bit scary when you think of it as to how many people have their minds made up on so many different things, and these same people seem unwilling to experiment for themselves in order to come to their own conclusions.     

[macrojack]

What too few audiophiles realize is the insignificance of their passion. We are about as numerous as the passionate folks whose lives revolve around the study of dung beetle mating practices and hibernation patterns. We all live in the world and we are all effected by nature. Maybe we are even influenced in some subtle way by these busy little beetles. But do we really need to care about the details that so enthrall their observers? Are we missing what they would insist is utterly fascinating?

So it is with audio - many are called but few are chosen. I can't tell you how many friends and family have had all the exposure they could tolerate from me and my system. Many have been very impressed but very few have ever felt compelled to equip themselves with the gear that weaves that ole black magic.

The more important question to my mind is why audiophiles are so evangelistic. Why must so many of us proselytize? Why do we feel the need to spread the word? Are we trying to recruit others to reinforce our own convictions? Are we really so magnanimous in our desire to share? Are we seeking validation for what we secretly know to be irrational spending of time and money? Why aren't we content to just go about our business sans company, enjoying what we enjoy?

The answers to these and other questions will be answered in my new book, "Hearing Is Believing". You can find it in airports and libraries across this great land as soon as I've written it and found a publisher. Meanwhile, take heart from the thinking of George Carlin. When asked by Dennis Miller about his thoughts on gays in the military, George considered the question for about thirty seconds whereupon a big knowing smile crossed his face as he said, " Great! -- more pussy for me". And more audio for you. More audio customers just means more dilution of quality and lower overall standards. Do you really want Amazon taking over your hobby? That's what would happen if Fred Kaplan's goofy fantasy ever came to fruition. Leave well enough alone - stay in your cave - and keep hi end audio a secret that only the chosen can appreciate. Don't make this a religion.

[Guy 13]

What too few audiophiles realize is the insignificance of their passion. We are about as numerous as the passionate folks whose lives revolve around the study of dung beetle mating practices and hibernation patterns. We all live in the world and we are all effected by nature. Maybe we are even influenced in some subtle way by these busy little beetles. But do we really need to care about the details that so enthrall their observers? Are we missing what they would insist is utterly fascinating?

So it is with audio - many are called but few are chosen. I can't tell you how many friends and family have had all the exposure they could tolerate from me and my system. Many have been very impressed but very few have ever felt compelled to equip themselves with the gear that weaves that ole black magic.

The more important question to my mind is why audiophiles are so evangelistic. Why must so many of us proselytize? Why do we feel the need to spread the word? Are we trying to recruit others to reinforce our own convictions? Are we really so magnanimous in our desire to share? Are we seeking validation for what we secretly know to be irrational spending of time and money? Why aren't we content to just go about our business sans company, enjoying what we enjoy?

The answers to these and other questions will be answered in my new book, "Hearing Is Believing". You can find it in airports and libraries across this great land as soon as I've written it and found a publisher. Meanwhile, take heart from the thinking of George Carlin. When asked by Dennis Miller about his thoughts on gays in the military, George considered the question for about thirty seconds whereupon a big knowing smile crossed his face as he said, " Great! -- more pussy for me". And more audio for you. More audio customers just means more dilution of quality and lower overall standards. Do you really want Amazon taking over your hobby? That's what would happen if Fred Kaplan's goofy fantasy ever came to fruition. Leave well enough alone - stay in your cave - and keep hi end audio a secret that only the chosen can appreciate. Don't make this a religion.

 

Guy 13

[Davey]

The article is just a lot rhetoric with a very simple point/conclusion.  Mr. Kaplan enjoys his audio hobby and spends bucks while his neighbor enjoys his Ferrari and spends bucks.  They both think the other one is pretty far "out there."

I don't find much significant in this article at all.

To each his own I guess.

Cheers,

Dave.

[wushuliu]

The article is just a lot rhetoric with a very simple point/conclusion.  Mr. Kaplan enjoys his audio hobby and spends bucks while his neighbor enjoys his Ferrari and spends bucks.  They both think the other one is pretty far "out there."

I don't find much significant in this article at all.

To each his own I guess.

Cheers,

Dave.

I think what's being lauded is the unapologetic nature of the article given the hobby being discussed, especially on a well known site with high readership like Slate.

[macrojack]

I think what's being lauded is the unapologetic nature of the article given the hobby being discussed, especially on a well known site with high readership like Slate.

Pray tell --- just who was seeking an apology?

Kaplan is complaining about the worst form of abuse a narcissist can suffer --- being ignored. But so what if no one else cares about my beautiful horns but me? So what if nobody else can hear a cable or a cobweb or a choob? If these things are meaningful to you, just go right ahead and enjoy them in anonymity. If they are not sufficient unto themselves to keep you entertained, then perhaps you are simply in need of friends. Such need not ascribe to your same hobby to enjoy your company and support a friendship.
Go forth and fulfill your humanity independent of gear worship. You are all you need.

[brother love]

To terrry parr:  Thanks for linking the Kaplan article & starting the thread.  I found Kaplan's piece to be very well thought out & a good read.

I have enjoyed this hobby for over 40 years now.  I am a budget audiophile (by necessity originally, but by personal choice now).  While I have never owned the esoteric stuff, I surely don’t fault anyone who does. More power to ‘em, just like those who own BMW’s vs. cars like my +100,000 mi. Toyota Camry.

So why is there such vitriol & disdain for audiophiles these days? Hard to say. Much of it is the faceless internet instigators/ trolls with aliases that like to stir the pot & get a rise out of folks. Some people will argue with a fence post. They get off on it.  The internet is a perfect outlet for these types.

Both my kids grew up around my stereo/ home theater doings , but neither got the bug.  Back then iPods/iTunes/ mp3’s were contributors, now iPhones/ free streaming services. But the one thing they did get from me was a love of music.  They just choose to listen to it in more modest ways like most of the general public. It is always going to be this way. From am/fm radios to car 8-tracks to Spotify, there will always be ways to listen to music economically.

I acknowledge that we are a dying (or at least diminishing) breed.  People come into my den & see the sound treatments & ask what are those? When I answer, they usually look at me like I am a freak. But I don’t give a $hit, because I enjoy it immensely.  I love to listen to music on my 2 channel rig. Most times I would rather do that than go to many concerts where the mix is poor & grossly distorted (exceptions non- amplified orchestras).

So a tip of the hat to my fellow audiophiles. We are part of a club that has its own version of a secret handshake. It is called high fidelity & the search thereof ...

[wushuliu]

Kaplan is complaining about the worst form of abuse a narcissist can suffer --- being ignored.

Lol. This reminds me of another consistent trait of the objectivist/audiophile haters - the impulse to bypass debate and head straight into psychoanalysis, which is about as subjective one can possibly get. Never fails.

[vinylfreeze]

What too few audiophiles realize is the insignificance of their passion. We are about as numerous as the passionate folks whose lives revolve around the study of dung beetle mating practices and hibernation patterns. We all live in the world and we are all effected by nature. Maybe we are even influenced in some subtle way by these busy little beetles. But do we really need to care about the details that so enthrall their observers? Are we missing what they would insist is utterly fascinating?

So it is with audio - many are called but few are chosen. I can't tell you how many friends and family have had all the exposure they could tolerate from me and my system. Many have been very impressed but very few have ever felt compelled to equip themselves with the gear that weaves that ole black magic.

The more important question to my mind is why audiophiles are so evangelistic. Why must so many of us proselytize? Why do we feel the need to spread the word? Are we trying to recruit others to reinforce our own convictions? Are we really so magnanimous in our desire to share? Are we seeking validation for what we secretly know to be irrational spending of time and money? Why aren't we content to just go about our business sans company, enjoying what we enjoy?

The answers to these and other questions will be answered in my new book, "Hearing Is Believing". You can find it in airports and libraries across this great land as soon as I've written it and found a publisher. Meanwhile, take heart from the thinking of George Carlin. When asked by Dennis Miller about his thoughts on gays in the military, George considered the question for about thirty seconds whereupon a big knowing smile crossed his face as he said, " Great! -- more pussy for me". And more audio for you. More audio customers just means more dilution of quality and lower overall standards. Do you really want Amazon taking over your hobby? That's what would happen if Fred Kaplan's goofy fantasy ever came to fruition. Leave well enough alone - stay in your cave - and keep hi end audio a secret that only the chosen can appreciate. Don't make this a religion.

Guess I may have underanalized the article while multitasking with music playing in the background
Don't worry, a serious dedicated listening session did follow upon completion of my various cyber world chores!
I merely enjoyed the unapologetic tone of the article, as well as his confessional regarding his initiatial audio awakening.
However, I am in complete agreement with macrojack regarding "audiophiles" who feel compelled to prothletize as if some sort of missionary

A good Carlin quote certainly can bring the ridiculousness of the scenario out

 

[charmerci]

We were already talking about this a couple days ago on HiRez....

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132620.msg1406130#new

[charmerci]

I acknowledge that we are a dying (or at least diminishing) breed.  People come into my den & see the sound treatments & ask what are those? When I answer, they usually look at me like I am a freak. But I don’t give a $hit, because I enjoy it immensely.  I love to listen to music on my 2 channel rig. Most times I would rather do that than go to many concerts where the mix is poor & grossly distorted (exceptions non- amplified orchestras).

I find the best response is to say - well, sit down and listen. When it sounds great, they notice.

But I've also played something that sounds realistic to someone and frankly, they didn't give a ...... They were more interested in music they wanted to hear, not how well it sounds. 

[Tyson]

I think a big part of it is that stereos (like cars) is really the province of passionate adolescents, and it's rather unseemly for grown @ss men spending a shitload of time and money on them.  Really, they ought to be spending their $$ on adult hobbies, like cigars and scotch

[macrojack]

I think a big part of it is that stereos (like cars) is really the province of passionate adolescents, and it's rather unseemly for grown @ss men spending a shitload of time and money on them.  Really, they ought to be spending their $$ on adult hobbies, like cigars and scotch

Well, Tyson, you're absolutely right, of course, but you should have included some of the other grown @ss men pursuits like hair restoration products, weight loss gimmicks, prostate remedies and ED reversal bromides. An important area of intersection exists, however. The video and, to some extent, audio aspects of this hobby can enhance the number one grown @ss man hobby known colloquially as porn. Talk about a field that gets no respect. Even the most devout followers of porn are too ashamed to cop to it because of public disdain. Fred Kaplan should be writing in defense of the porn industry - they get a far harsher treatment in the overall scheme of things than the audiophile.

[JLM]

deleted

[Tyson]

Well, Tyson, you're absolutely right, of course, but you should have included some of the other grown @ss men pursuits like hair restoration products, weight loss gimmicks, prostate remedies and ED reversal bromides. An important area of intersection exists, however. The video and, to some extent, audio aspects of this hobby can enhance the number one grown @ss man hobby known colloquially as porn. Talk about a field that gets no respect. Even the most devout followers of porn are too ashamed to cop to it because of public disdain. Fred Kaplan should be writing in defense of the porn industry - they get a far harsher treatment in the overall scheme of things than the audiophile.

Yes, agreed.  Porn is the single best reason to upgrade to a 3D projector.