[7x57]

I got an email from Jerry Raskin's Needle Doctor today, so I decided to look at what Denon had in phono cartridges. I have used a Denon DL160 for several years now, and it was quite a bit better than the more costly Grado cartridge it replaced.

When I bought my DL160, the DL160 cost $179 and the DL110 cost $139. I noticed that the DL160 had been dropped, and the new DL110 sells for $299 now. It seems the DL110 has been upgraded to the DL160 type of elliptical stylus with tapered cantilever, but the price is far beyond what the DL160 went for.

You will see review after review of people being blown away by the DL110 or DL160, and the owners saying that it competed with or exceeded Cartridges they had that cost 2X or more.

Could it be that Denon finally decided to combine the two cartridges, reducing their manufacturing cost further, while raising the price to get more attention and provide advertising revenue?

I will try to replace my DL160 with something as close as possible to it when the time comes for replacement. I was setting my antiskating adjustment today with an old Stereo Review test record, and I was frustrated in doing the test as the cartridge refused to mistrack at the highest modulation at the recommended tracking force. I had to reduce the tracking force below Denon's recommendation and even then I only got a signal at the highest modulation level. The DL160 will track warped records and sound really good on records that my old Grado cartridge would jump out of the grooves on and pump the woofers really badly. The old Grado Dance as some have termed it.

Compared to others in its class that cost $299 or even more, still it is hard to appreciate such a sudden jump from $139 to $299. I guess all you guys that heaped praise on the DL110 and DL160 should have kept your mouths shut. Denon is now selling it for what the perception is relative to the others in the market. I maintain that it was the others that were overpriced.

[yeldarb]

I bought my first DL110 last year.  Mounted on a relatively low line 30 year old Technics.  I liked it so much that I bought another for back up, when I found it at the old price.  Great sense of "life" to music played with these.  I have looked at the stylus at 15 power.  It is nude, appears to be square shanked.  I like it and it apparently was a good match with the "S" arm.  Never heard the DL160. 

[neobop]

Hi 7x57,
I had a 160 a few years back.  It's not the same as a 110, although both carts have Denon's special elliptical tip which seems to be a hyper elliptical, and the electrical specs are identical.  The 110 has lower compliance and will be better on heavy arms.  The 160 has a tapered cantilever.  There might be internal differences?

You might want to consider a retip if your current cart is functional when the time comes.  I've read that Andy Kim of the Needle Clinic does nice work or Soundsmith can give you a new tapered cantilever and elliptical for $150.

We've had price increases from virtually everybody, even AT.  The price of diamonds apparently is higher and everything else keeps going up.....
The 110 was an amazing bargain at $139.  It was cheaper than a 103, although I wonder if it was cheaper to manufacture.  I was surprised they could sell it for that. 

"Denon is now selling it for what the perception is relative to the others in the market. I maintain that it was the others that were overpriced."

Not at this price point.  Competition is keen, rewards are small.  Considering what goes into manufacturing a cartridge, it's a wonder they could keep the old price so long.
neo

[a.wayne]

The dl110 was alway the best deal in town .....

[7x57]

On the old Shure test records, the cartridge only mistracks at the highest level of the music recordings. It could also be that the test record is a bit worn from my old Grado cartridge which can't track as well. The DL160 tracks warped records that threw the Grado MR8 Signature clear out of the groove. My tonearm is rather light and the DL160 is light as well, so it tracks just about anything. Record wear has never been a problem either, but I use LAST Record Preservative on all my records I play a lot.

The DL160 tapered stylus cantilever allows these tracking feats, and the old DL110 had a straight stylus cantilever with a round tip. The new DL110 seems to have inherited the tapered cantilever and elliptical diamond of the DL160. I think the tracking force range is still 1.5 to 2.1 grams, however. With the new elliptical stylus tip and tapered cantilever, I would say the DL110 will substitute for a DL160. Denon probably does not want two such close cartridges in their product line, so they made a hybrid.

I would soon expect a big increase in Denon's upscale moving coil cartridges if the DL110 manufacturing cost increased so much. Maybe they are giving dealers a chance to move old product out so that it does not compete against higher priced new product. The DL160 and DL110 are fast movers, but how many people really buy the higher priced cartridges? Denon had to sell several of the DL110 for every low output moving coil cartridge. In trackability and lower record wear, I would stick with a DL110 over a DL103R anyway.

When the time comes for replacement, I will be looking around a while before I drop $299, and yes, the Soundsmith retip will be more attractive.

Doesn't Denon have a retipping service? It said in my DL160 owner's manual to send it in for a retipping when the time came. Bought it about 5 years ago.

[yeldarb]

I took another look at my Denon.  The cantilever does appear to have a taper.  It is still a pretty big diameter,

[FullRangeMan]

Could it be that Denon finally decided to combine the two cartridges, reducing their manufacturing cost further, while raising the price to get more attention and provide advertising revenue?

The Denon has a long history of always increase prices of products that sell well.
In the 1980s Denon had the excellent class A amp POA6600 in the $2K range:

After some time he was withdrawn from marker and returned in one fancy gray alu chassis no more monos and priced 10x more=$20,000!

[7x57]

I took a look at the cartridge retipping services that The Soundsmith provides, and I will definitely retip my DL160 with an upgraded Ruby cantilever and Nude Elliptical diamond stulus before spending $299 on a DL110. It's about the same price either way except the DL160 would then operate in the $1000+ cartridge range. The aluminum cantilever with elliptical diamond stylus retipping service will go for about half that much at around $150+ shipping.

SO......if you have an otherwise good DL160 there is no need to replace with a DL110.

The Soundsmith once offered the upgraded DL160 from their sales stock, but with the amount of DL160 cartridges you will be able to buy for cheap from those selling off their worn cartridges on eBay or Audiogon, it makes more sense to find one for next to nothing with a snapped cantilever or worn stylus and send it to The Soundsmith.

I think that from now on I will avoid buying new cartridges and get one at a very cheap price needing a retip and send it to The Soundsmith.

For what it's worth, if the DL160 sounds a bit bright and harsh in your system as it does in mine when loaded to 47K ohms, change it to the 1K to 2K load range. MIGHT WORK FOR THE DL110 AS WELL. Worth a try. I selected 1.9K load position in my EV-1 and the harshness seems to be gone without affecting the high end extension. This was more evident when using E-H 12AX7EH tubes in the input position. With Mullard 12AX7A tubes it was not seen as a problem, and they are never seen as harsh sounding. Most folks use Russian or Eastern European or Chinese tubes these days, and they are often known as being more harsh than a lot of the audiophile NOS favorites.

Since the output impedance of the DL110 and DL160 is 150 ohms, you need to stay about 10X higher than that on your phono stage input load to prevent voltage loss. The manufacturer's recommendation is just that, a recommendation. I got this tip from a website where many moderately priced cartridges were compared and he used 1K loading on the DL160.

[neobop]

7x57,
Last time I looked, Soundsmith offers a nude elliptical and tapered aluminum for $150.  Level 2 is a line contact/ruby, and level 3 is a micro/ruby.

With level 2 you can expect rather dramatic changes to the sound.  FWIW, I loaded my 160 at 11K, but that changes with preamp and preference.

Good luck,
neo