[chgolatin2]

Want to get back into vinyl, looking at some options.  I have a budget Of up to $650 looking at a few options.  Looking at the Project Carbon $449, Project Essential II $299, Rega RP1 $640 so far I like the project carbon.  Between these 3 options which one will be the best? Personally I like the Project Carbon, but I'm no guru expert in turntables... Used to own a Technics turntable in my younger days but that's all
Of my experience...

Thanks!

[Wayner]

I like your choice of the Project Debut Carbon. It has enough bells and whistles to get started. I'm assuming that yours would come with the Ortofon 2M red, no? The Rega is an OK machine, but you need a VTF scale to dial in the weight. Hopefully, your preamp/receiver has phono inputs.

Wayner

[orthobiz]

I like used also. Probably lots of choices at that price point.

Paul

[jarcher]

Definitely the Debut Carbon.......I'm am continually surprised at how good a table this is for the money.  The $150 more vs the Essential is money very well spent.  The Rega RP1 to me is pretty mediocre, and definitely not worth the $ over the Debut Carbon.

Sounds pretty good even straight out of the box and the speed stability is very good - I've measured some tables at +/-  .03%, which is impressive for any table, particularly a $450 one.

The included interconnects are total crap though, so make sure to get something at least a bit better than those, such as Wireworld Luna. Suggest a half meter to the phono stage (keep that as short as possible) and 1M if possible to the preamp, should run you about $75. 

If you can stretch your budget a bit I'd also get a Project Phono Box S phono preamp at about $200 to go with it. 

We run the above combo into english integrated amps and speakers and we & customers alike are always pleasantly surprised with the results. 

Hope that helps - Pro-ject sold over 30,000 Debut Carbon's in 2014, and for good reason : it's THE entry level audiophile grade table to have.  A real no-brainer : buy and enjoy.

[kingdeezie]

For what its worth, my first turntable was a Project Debut like 6 or 7 years ago. It lit my love of vinyl. It performed great everyday. 

[chgolatin2]

Thanks for the help, I will most likely be getting the Debut Carbon.  Will consider used but I tend to favor new goodies from time to time

Definitely the Debut Carbon.......I'm am continually surprised at how good a table this is for the money.  The $150 more vs the Essential is money very well spent.  The Rega RP1 to me is pretty mediocre, and definitely not worth the $ over the Debut Carbon.

Sounds pretty good even straight out of the box and the speed stability is very good - I've measured some tables at +/-  .03%, which is impressive for any table, particularly a $450 one.

The included interconnects are total crap though, so make sure to get something at least a bit better than those, such as Wireworld Luna. Suggest a half meter to the phono stage (keep that as short as possible) and 1M if possible to the preamp, should run you about $75. 

If you can stretch your budget a bit I'd also get a Project Phono Box S phono preamp at about $200 to go with it. 

We run the above combo into english integrated amps and speakers and we & customers alike are always pleasantly surprised with the results. 

Hope that helps - Pro-ject sold over 30,000 Debut Carbon's in 2014, and for good reason : it's THE entry level audiophile grade table to have.  A real no-brainer : buy and enjoy.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I agree with others on the Carbon Debut.  A friend of mine just bought one and I set it up for him.  It's well built, up-gradable and sounds nice.  The Ortofon 2M Red cartridge is crap though ( I don't see what all the hub bub is about the 2M Red.   I find it bright, noisy and fatiguing to listen to ).  I would see if you can get credit on the 2M Red and get a better cartridge.  The Debut is better built than the Rega RP1 which looks flimsy in comparison.  The Rega has its problems based on a lot of reviews that I have read.  I even had a TT dealer who sells the Rega RP1 tell me that it is junk.

If you can swing it, get the Carbon Debut DC or the Carbon Debut Esprit DC with the new DC motor and Acrylic platter.  The speed controller is another good option to get the best sound out of it.

[Guy 13]

Hi all,
if I had to buy another turn-table,
I would buy the ProJect Carbon instead of my Rega P3,
the Rega P3 or RP3 are cheaply built and over price.
I bought a ProJect Phono Box DC from Amazon at 150 USD
and I am very happy with the sound,
it's small and can fit almost under the turn table.
Even if I never seen in person or tried or owned
or listen to the ProJect Carbon,
I am sure it's better than the Rega RP1 or RP3.
Well, I think you can conclude that I don't like
and regret my Rega purchase.
(The same for my Rega Apollo CD player
which is starting do to things it should not.)

Guy 13

[orthobiz]

For what its worth, my first turntable was a Project Debut like 6 or 7 years ago. It lit my love of vinyl. It performed great everyday. 

Mine was a Dual 1215S with a Shure M55e. Guess I'm getting old. It was like 40 years ago.

Sorry, couldn't resist: now back on topic...

Paul

[Scoville]

Have had a project debut carbon for a few years and like it a lot.  fwiw I found that replacing the stock mat with one from Herbie's (http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm) focused the sound

[SteveRB]

Is a used turntable out of the question? Cash tends to go a LOT further on the used market. One can usually find some type of package deal with a decent cart/arm... A VPI HW-19 could easily be had for that price and probably be a big upgrade on the decks mentioned.

[ElliottStudio]

I have a VPI HW-19Jr that I've done many upgrades and modifications to. These decks are great if you like to fiddle around and do DIY stuff. But the Project tables (and arms) are good for the price if you just want to play records and forget about getting your hands dirty.

[wushuliu]

Uturn orbit plus

[jarcher]

Misc replies in one :

- Ortofon 2M Red - many I think find it too bright and harsh because they are making judgements before it's broken in.  It CAN sound harsh and bright particularly raw right out of the box with the crappy RCA's in the box.  After 10+ hrs break in it really settles down.  By 40hrs it should be broken in. I'd still use the Debut Carbon with IC's more on the warm side though, which is probably true of most inexpensive turntables.

- I bought a few used tables from $75 - $350 along with a Pro-ject as my first tables a few years back.  Every single one of the used tables had issues - from bent pieces of arms to worn belts / speed off, etc, and most of these were delivered in their original boxes / packing materials or otherwise well packed - one I picked up in person, which was the only one without issue, though it ended up not sounding that great.  Of all of those the Pro-ject Debut sounds better. Don't let your first time TT experience be soured by a bad used table experience - particularly not under $450.  Not worth it.

- VPI HW-19 : good table, but usually see asking prices for these north of $650. Not sure even then I'd want to buy one without inspecting in person, checking the speed, etc unless it was from a seller who'll offer a reasonable return guarantee.

- Uturn Orbit Plus : saw one of these very recently in the flesh : pretty disappointing.  Pretty flimsy arm, belt pulley was cocked off to the side, not a very nice finish on the plinth.  I know all these things are somewhat cosmetic and I haven't had a chance to listen to one, but what I did see didn't impress.  About the only nice thing I can say is that the clear acrylic platter looked nice.  Lastly according to their website there's a 7 week shipping wait (!) : the "basic" is back-ordered until May. Seriously?

- $450 gets you the Carbon Debut Carbon DC vs $399 for the reg Debut Carbon.  Not sure the non-DC $399 is even a current model anymore, though I'm sure sellers out there have them.  I'd still get the Carbon DC though as the more time-precise machine.  Esprit w/ the acrylic platter and built in speed box for push button 33 / 45 change is nice.  If your on a limited budget though I'd spend the money on improving the phono stage. 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have to beg to differ on the 2M Red at least in my system.  I used one on my Thorens TD-145 TT for a few weeks and it was still too bright.  It was dynamic and had some good qualities but it was very fatiguing and it had a lot of background noise.  And my system is far from bright with a Pass amp and BAT tube preamp and tube phono preamp. I replaced it with a Nagaoka MP-200 and was astounded at the difference.  The back ground was completely black, there was much more detail and no fatigue at all.  I would rather have the 2M  Blue,  Grado Prestige Gold or the Nagaoka MP-110 for about the same price as the 2M Red

[wushuliu]

I'd still get the Carbon DC though as the more time-precise machine.

Then why do you need to spend another couple hundred for a speed box.

Try googling Pro-ject Carbon hum. That makes for good reading.

I won't say much more about the Orbit other than it's well represented on other forums and Fremer's review certainly makes it competitive with the other budget tables.

I have yet to read any substantive comparison that discusses how a budget Pro-ject is any different from a Rega other than Regas run slightly fast which is of course a feature, not a bug. Just a lot of brand loyalty recs. At least the Orbit had a transparent production process and quite a few comparison reviews with other tables including vintage.

[wushuliu]

I would rather have the 2M  Blue,  Grado Prestige Gold or the Nagaoka MP-110 for about the same price as the 2M Red

Better yet a used Grado cart with a new 8MZ stylus.

[Wayner]

Grados will not work on a Project. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmm.............................

Wayner

[Guy 13]

Grados will not work on a Project. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmm.............................

Wayner

Hi Wayner,
I am curious to know why to increase my knowledge about cartridge/arm matching. Please explain.
Thanks.

Guy 13

[Wayner]

Because the Pro-ject's motors are not very well shielded and neither is the Grado cartridge. So the motor's fluctuating magnetic field will induce a magnetic field into the Grado's coils and at the same time, influence the stylus assembly, because it is a moving iron. The AudioKarma has a working data base for Grado carts on various tables and the results (good or bad).

Generally speaking, Grados will work well on direct drive tables, and belt driven tables that have a decently shielded motor that is located away from the arm as far as possible (upper left hand corner). Some direct drives have the transformer for the whold system located under the tonearm perch (bad spot).

Even the AR turntable has some hum, it is diminished because it is a very small motor, with a very small magnetic field.

DC motors with isolated power supplies would be ideal. I believe that some new model of Rega tables have DC motors with wall warts as power supplies, but I have not heard any reports (good or bad) on these.

Also keep in mind that trying to block a magnetic field with a Faraday cage is a hit and a miss at best. It's kind of like trying to stop time.....it just doesn't work well.

The new Pioneer PLX-1000 Direct Drive TT got a very nice review in this month's Stereophile magazine, and at $700, certainly could be a perfect mate. I am debating on purchasing one to experiment.

Hows that....

Wayner