[rtate]

So, I really want to feel the magic of tubes but know very little about where to start.
I have a budget of around $2,000 give or take and pre owned is ok.
I currently have solid state gear consisting of Pass labs F5, Marantz 2285 and other pieces of the same style. Preamps consist of a Gary Dodd tube buffer, Pass Lab B1 and Bride of Zen.
My 2 channel speakers are Hawthorne Audio Duets but I also have GR Research XLS Encores and some Diy Aria 5's with focal and Raven drivers.
I have never owned tube amps or even listened to them other than a few store demo's so I don't know how the different tubes and configurations differ. My preference has been leaning towards mono blocks and I have been reading about the older Dynacos and have some  updated MK3's available locally for about $1k but ,I wonder if these  older designs are getting a little long in the tooth. I don't think I'm into "flea power" amps, probably 20 watts/ch. or more.
I've read good and bad about "chi-fi" and poor quality transformers so I'm not sure about them.
So are the Dynaco's a good place to start ? or are there better options out there..

Anyway I'm looking for some recommendations that will give me that tube magic !
Thanks for taking the time to read my story...

[mick wolfe]

I'd probably go with a new tube integrated to keep it simple . The usual suspects are the Rogue Cronus, Line Magnetic 211IA,or 216IA and PrimaLuna ProLogue for starters. Lots of choices in or around 2K. There will be Chinese built amps such as the LM and PL mentioned, but both have solid reputations for build quality/reliability.

[a.wayne]

So ,


If you have never had, or heard a tube amplifier why the choice..? I would suggest you get out and listen to one first or try one in your system before committing, big difference between them from amp to amp ...



Regards...

[rtate]

I agree that I should get out and listen but it's hard to hear vintage amps and the stuff at my local shops are all out of my price range. So I'm just going to have to take the plunge and start somewhere...
I  just thought that the Dynaco's would be a good starting point just to get  my feet wet.
The more I read though the more confused i get, it seems the dynacos are a love/hate thing...

[I.Greyhound Fan]

If you want a very nice tube amp consider this AVA Ultra Valve amp or Prima Luna ProLogue amp-

http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=250&Itemid=235


http://www.primaluna-usa.com/product-main/prologue-premium/prem-pwr


The AVA amp has a 30 day money back, no questions asked return policy and the best customer service in the business.  It is a sweet sounding amp with plenty of power at 35wpc. It think that your Pass preamp will be a good match for either of these amps.

Rogue also makes some nice gear.

[RDavidson]

As you're using Pass class A solid state (which I also use and enjoy very much) I suggest looking for class A tube amps. This should narrow your search quite a bit.
I have a fair amount of tube amp experience and, yes, as has been said before, they can vary A LOT.
The trick for you will be finding a tube amp around $2k that can retain the kind of resolution you're used to, but add that touch of midrange naturalness that even the best SS cannot quite match. What you're looking for usually costs $$$, from what I've seen.
One amp that might get you what I think could be close, has the power you want, and without costing $$$ is the Music Reference RM10mk2. It isn't class A, but its design pedigree is unquestionably top notch.

[a.wayne]

Most tooby stuff is love hate , had a custom made Toob Pre here last week, originally sounded dead to me, 3 sets of toob rolling  and  then fantastic sound. If you have never done one before you cannot believe the playing around involved. 

Another to look at is  Jolida,  you can find good used prices if not new , buy the biggest one in your budget ...

[mick wolfe]

I agree that I should get out and listen but it's hard to hear vintage amps and the stuff at my local shops are all out of my price range. So I'm just going to have to take the plunge and start somewhere...
I  just thought that the Dynaco's would be a good starting point just to get  my feet wet.
The more I read though the more confused i get, it seems the dynacos are a love/hate thing...

If you want to start with a "new" Dynaco offering, look no further than a Bob Latino ST 70. With caps upgrades and premium tube choices, it will come in at around $1400. ( factory assembled) An optional  volume pot in also offered. I've owned one for years. Rock solid reliable and excellent voicing. Biasing is simple, but does require a multimeter.

[geowak]

I agree with Mr Wayne and Mr Wolfe. I think having a listen is critical, and the suggestion of the integrated amp by Rogue or LM Audio or Primaluna is sound. Having the full backing/warranty by a dealer and manufacturer is also important IMHO. Have fun looking and testing the waters...

[woodsyi]

So, I really want to feel the magic of tubes but know very little about where to start.

Where are you?  Maybe there is someone with tubes nearby who will have you over.

[rtate]

I'm in southern Ontario
30 minutes from Toronto
Funny saying "Southern Ontario" where its -20 degrees here   

[JakeJ]

I'm going to join the "Listen First" camp.  Is there a dealer in your area that might have something interesting and would let you take it home for an audition?  I know, these types of dealers are far and few between these days.

As far as recommending a brand or model, well, that's a lot tougher.  So many offerings and with a variety of voicings.  Vintage gear can set you back even more than new if it needs work right out of the box.  There are many excellent amps from Heathkit, Acrosound, H.H. Scott, Grommes, and dozens of other manufacturers from the golden age of hifi.  If you are looking on eBay then just be aware that you should probably figure in a visit to a tech to make sure everything is OK with your "new" amp(s).

[rtate]

I'm not afraid of doing some referb or upgrade work it that's what it takes.
I just want to see if this is a rabbit hole that i want to go down !!!

[TomS]

As you're using Pass class A solid state (which I also use and enjoy very much) I suggest looking for class A tube amps. This should narrow your search quite a bit.
I have a fair amount of tube amp experience and, yes, as has been said before, they can vary A LOT.
The trick for you will be finding a tube amp around $2k that can retain the kind of resolution you're used to, but add that touch of midrange naturalness that even the best SS cannot quite match. What you're looking for usually costs $$$, from what I've seen.
One amp that might get you what I think could be close, has the power you want, and without costing $$$ is the Music Reference RM10mk2. It isn't class A, but its design pedigree is unquestionably top notch.

Good suggestion. If I was going to wade in without a huge investment, this RM10 on Audiogon is a bargain. 35wpc for the HA Duets is plenty.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-music-reference-rm-10-2015-02-08-amplifiers-94577-san-leandro-ca

[rtate]

I found a Rogue Audio Tempest 2 for $1350 locally
Is that a good amp and is it a good price ?

[mick wolfe]

The RM 10 would be fine with the Duets, but I'm not sure it has enough drive for the other speakers mentioned. Having owned 2  RM 10's and quite a few EL 34 based amps, I can say the 35 watt rating for the RM 10 is extremely optimistic.( maybe if it had 4 EL 84's per side like the Manley Stingray ) In my experience, there was no way an RM 10 had the sense of ease or the dynamic capability of an EL 34 or 6L6 based amp of a similar power rating.( 35-40 watts) I can also make the same statement when I strapped both RM 10's together. Never remotely sounded like 70 watts.  Now with a high efficiency speaker, the sweetness of the EL 84 may win the day, but not if you're looking for higher SPL's into a speaker below 90 db in efficiency.

[Photon46]

While I don't own one, reports from owners and critics make me think a great starter would be Van Alstine's Ultravalve amp. Considering its reported performance, it's a bargain @ $1999.00 and you almost never see a used one for sale (which is, in my eyes, a good recommendation.) As an aside, I'd think about attending an audio show when time and finances allow. I find them to be a great way to see and hear a lot of gear I'd never otherwise be able to. The upcoming Axpona show in Chicago is an eight hour drive away for you.

[RDavidson]

The Ultravalve is a solid choice, particularly for someone new to tubes. The fact that its lineage is the Dynaco ST70, the highest selling tube amp of all time, is a good thing. There's likely no other tube circuit available anywhere that has been tweaked and tweaked and tweaked to "perfection" like the ST70. I think the Ultravalve may be the best example available. The ST70 is not a bass master or resolution king, but if you're looking for tube magic, it has it.
Regarding the RM10, and mick wolfe's experience with power or lack of, one must keep in mind the amount of gain the amp has, as well as the input impedance. There are factors to any amp, and I think tube amps vary more widely than SS, that can affect sound including the perception of power. In my experience, impedance mismatches can result in dull, weak, sound and lowered output volume. An amp with lower gain will need more input voltage from the source or preamp for the sound to fill-out appropriately. Normally, this isn't a problem, but it can happen.

[InfernoSTi]

I have had wonderful results using the HA Duets with the Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3 amp.  Class A SET "magic" is where it is at...I would avoid Push-Pull as you are already a Class A aficionado via First Watt/Nelson Pass.  I have an XA-30.5 so I know a little of what you have, too.  I really think you would be very happy with the Bottlehead Stereomore...if you aren't comfortable building it, there are building services and still keep in your budget.

Best,
John

[JLM]

You have two very different speakers, a less expensive low efficiency box speaker, and a high efficiency open baffle. 

I'd choose one to focus on, which I assume would be the more expensive, high efficiency Hawthornes and leave the GR's for secondary listening.  So you'll only need a few watts, which opens the door to SET's, many of which are within your price range.  One brand not mentioned so far in this thread is Decware.  You could even contact Darryl at Hawthorne to see what he recommends or just visit their message board to get ideas.  Doing this, and with the gear you already have, you could have two systems in the same room, just switch the source between them (that's exactly what I'm doing currently).