[steve in jersey]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest over here for this portion of HP use, but I thought I'd post this anyway for those who may have
some .

Some time ago , I think I may have posted here that I much preferred my HiFiman HE-6 quite a bit more than the HD800s. More than likely
I ended up citing the same characteristics of the HD800 that other people normally have as they can have a serious "Dr Jekyll / Mr Hyde''
complex to them. I was under the mistaken impression that I was stuck with the "Mr Hyde" side of them. I done a "360" on that belief.

There are a few factors at work that place you in the 800 is the "Greatest thing since Sliced Bread, you must be crazy if you think otherwise"
or the "They may be overrated ,because they can sound bright & they are lacking in bass response" camps. As they are delivered they are
"voiced" to "amplifiy" whatever dynamic traits exist in whatever recorded music you listen to. "Gee, how do they do that ?" you ask, by adding a bit of "headphone generated resonance" to whatever you happen to be listening to. Depending on the types of music you listen
to this sound manipulation may not be disagreeable to what you're hearing or "whoa. I think my ears may start bleeding!"

Add to this the higher the level of the associated equipment you listen to the HD800s through (& once again how dynamic the recording
is) the more you will be able to notice the "sound" that is not part of the recording. I could go on about this , but I'd probably just be using different wording) (Like the 15 page report you passed in that had maybe 4 pages of information; Yeah, that didn't fly). The HD800
are not "Neutral" (but they're so technically brilliant, it becomes obvious) The crazy thing about all this how easy it is to get rid of the "voice" they don't need & bring them closer to "Greatest thing since Slice Bread) (If you'll send $19.94,that's right I've deducted 1 cent more) He, he sorry !   

I'm not going to point people toward the various places to find information on "modding the HD800s". I'm assuming those reading
are already wearing their "Big Boy" pants so they can easily find this on their own. We're really not talking about having to spend much
(other than their time & effort)on the needed materials. The most intensive mod I've done so far is to remove grillles that are sitting on the
outside of the headphones behind the drivers. This does wonders at getting rid of that 6-8khz frequency spike & as a result makes the
treble way less aggressive sounding (more so then just damping the ring on the inside of the phone that is holding them down).

If you've spent this much on these headphones (& they're not performing like the "reference" headphones you wanted them to be) there's
a solution if you're willing to realize how to find their true potential... (Did I reach 15 pages yet ?: pretty close though, right) 

[JohnR]

The HD 800 are a pretty good price locally at the moment. And I'm told there is "room to move" as well.

However I don't want to "have to" mod new headphones north of $1k. I'm hoping/wondering if Sennheiser have something up their sleeve that will be revealed before too long...

[dB Cooper]

Well, Sennheiser is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They brought out out the HD650, a lot of people said, "Oh, it's too dark." They voiced the HD800 with more highs, and a lot of the same folks said, "Oh it's too bright." You picks yer poison...

I was going to mull aloud how a headphone can be "extremely accurate and highly detailed" and speculate how that can be true and yet the set be lacking in "musicality"... Seemed like the source material and/or front end would have to be lacking in musicality for that to be true. But then I remembered that I had essentially the same reaction to the AKG K701, about which much the same could be said from my POV. I don't find the HD800 to have quite that same "unforgiving" quality as the K701, although either may certainly tell the listener more than they want to know about what they're feeding it.

The juicy rumor seems to be that the as-yet hypothetical "new flagship" Sennheiser might be a planar. That would be interesting, but if so, I also wouldn't be surprised if it was priced even further north than the already expensive 800.

[rtm00x]

Honestly I found the HD-800 to be oddly engaging for how richly detailed they are. My headphone "journey" ended with them. I did have a bit of a hard time with some brightness when I first got them, and I was coming from a pair of Alessandro MS-Pro's. I found them to better when I bought new earpads (I bought the headphones used, the earpads were flat). Part of it was also just your ears becoming accustomed to their sound signature. All said and done they are engaging, rich in the midrange, textured in the  low end, extended on top. If you can afford it, they are definitely worth a shot. Or you can do what I did, buy used, don't lose much if you decide to re-sell.

[dB Cooper]

I noticed recently that Sennheiser has dropped the MSRP on the "second banana" HD700 from $999 to a "mere" $749. These seemed in my brief audition to have a "signature" (as well as a price) that splits the difference between the "too dark" HD650 and the "too bright" HD800. But like I say, Sennheiser is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I found the fit a bit crowded on the 700 compared to my HD650 with its larger earcups. Like the 650, people seem to have strong feelings about all three, both pro and con. You pays your money...

[JohnR]

I noticed recently that Sennheiser has dropped the MSRP on the "second banana" HD700 from $999 to a "mere" $749.

Heck, really, I can get one locally right now for $599 which translates to 467 in your money. There's a turnabout for the books!

I've heard such mixed reports about the 700 that I've never looked into it.

[eclein]

I'd love to hear them as I've always like Senns. The op mentioned modding the phones, which is always a good idea if you can do it, feel comfortable etc.
 After doing extensive mods to some Grado's years ago I mess with all mine as much as I can without going to far...little stuff can make a big difference. I have some JBL Bluetooth cans that I put a ring of tissue under each ear pad. It raises the pads up very little but increases the seal, making for better low end.....I do agree with John though if I pay 1K or even $300 I better get good sound out of the box. The only cans I never tinkered with were my Hifiman HE-5LE's.......the sound was fine and I was way to nervous about doing anything to them and screwing them up.
 I'm enjoying my DT1350's these days as Beyerdynamics has the low end I love in these babies.......

[dB Cooper]

Heck, really, I can get one locally right now for $599 which translates to 467 in your money. There's a turnabout for the books!

I've heard such mixed reports about the 700 that I've never looked into it.

The 700 may be "inferior" to the 800 but I wouldn't call it an "inferior" headphone. Based on an admittedly short listen, I'm not sure it earns the premium over the 650 though, especially in comparison to the AKG K712, a major contender at or just below that general price range.

[mamba315]

I can't believe I am (somewhat) weighing the purchase of some HD-800's.  I got into head-Fi (and hifi) right when they were released in 2008.  I remember the tremendous amount of hype and angst they generated as initial impressions started hitting the market.  I have never considered them in 7 years since brightness is one thing I do not like in any transducer.  So what changed?

Well, I've realized that smooth treble is an issue with EVERY single headphone and IEM I've ever owned.  I once read that even a theoretically perfect headphone (one with flat frequency response, which doesn't exist) would still need EQ to remove a couple treble spikes that are caused by the way headphones interact with the human head and ears.  It seems accurate to me, since very narrow EQ cuts have been necessary on all models I've owned, even on "darker" phones like my LCD-2.2.  EQ (and crossfeed) has improved the listening experience every single time, regardless of headphone.  Only way to get smooth treble in my experience.

So when EQ is a given, it makes sense to start focusing on other factors like having an open soundstage and technical brilliance.  As you can see, these are areas where the HD-800 are known to shine.  I like my Audeze's too, but the soundstage will always be very "intimate" and everyone keeps saying that even the best orthos won't keep scaling with good gear like the HD-800's do.  Guess it makes me curious, since I've been hearing that for many years from so many different people.  What's it all about?

One mod with no downside seems to be the hardware mod.  It won't change the frequency response, but should increase transparency a little.  Beyond that, the amp seems to be key, and tube amps are pretty popular pairings.  Probably because many are no feedback designs, and most tube amps have slightly higher output impedances which elevates the bass a hair.  Plus they have that special something that transistors usually don't.  So people say, as I have no experience here.

Well I am curious, and I've been looking into it, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.  At least they should be comfortable (another issue I've had with many full size cans).

[dB Cooper]

mamba,
Listen to them at a show if possible, and if you are going to drop that much anyway, also give the Beyer T1 a whirl. I haven't heard the AKG K812 so can't comment directly, but innerfidelity gave them a mixed review.

By the way, the oft-maligned HD650 has, to this day, some of the smoothest highs out there. I dial in just a pinch of treble when necessary and they really sing. (It is better to dial in a smidge of treble than to curse the darkness.)

[JohnR]

I can't believe I am (somewhat) weighing the purchase of some HD-800's.

Heh heh I was there too. I talked myself down. (Financial considerations amongst other things.) If a good used pair came up for a great price locally I might reconsider

But things are changing so fast right now.

[Edit] Wrt comfort, the 800s are sure roomy, as I recall from my quick whirl the other week. I put on a pair of Oppo (forget which one it was) and they pressed on my ears. I've not experienced that before, it wasn't even worth listening to them, I knew I couldn't wear them. I don't think I have particular big ears....

[mamba315]

You're very much on the right track with the narrow-band treble adjustments.  What I think most people have yet to discover is when you get the glitches corrected or adjusted, the sound gets more natural and the soundstage is better (not bigger necessarily, just better).

x1000!  Kinda baffles me that more people don't know about this/practice this type of EQ.  Or when reviewers start saying a certain headphone (or speaker) is a little peaky, and start guessing where those peaks might be.  Completely crazy.  Get a free tone generator that will allow you to find out EXACTLY where the peaks are, and you're halfway there.  They are available on every OS, even the iPhone.  Get a free parametric EQ, and problem solved.  This is low hanging fruit, people!    Real results, no money spent, and you just learned a new skill.  Does it get better?

This is the thread that got me started down this path all those years ago.  Highly recommended reading:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial

Heh heh I was there too. I talked myself down. (Financial considerations amongst other things.) If a good used pair came up for a great price locally I might reconsider

But things are changing so fast right now.

[Edit] Wrt comfort, the 800s are sure roomy, as I recall from my quick whirl the other week. I put on a pair of Oppo (forget which one it was) and they pressed on my ears. I've not experienced that before, it wasn't even worth listening to them, I knew I couldn't wear them. I don't think I have particular big ears....

This is one of those headphones that attracts and repulses people like none other.  Not uncommon for some people to buy and sell a pair 2 or 3 times.

Would also consider a used pair myself.  They've been on the market for so long, it shouldn't be too hard.

The roominess and comfort is a big factor to me.  Once you get the EQ thing down, comfort becomes more important.  Had a pair of Beyer DT990-600's once that I spent a lot of time practicing EQ on.  Transformed them from a peaky V-shaped sound into something just magical.  Even at crazy volume, they remained butter smooth.  One of the finest frequency responses I ever heard, BUT they hurt the top of my head in less than an hour.  Sold them for that reason alone.

I think you did the right thing with the Oppo.  ANY pressure on my ears has always resulted in pain, usually within 30 minutes.  I don't think they are that big, although maybe they stick out a little.   

I should mention that EQ isn't a cure-all for every phone and IEM.  Some have issues completely outside of frequency response.  No matter how much correction is applied, they'll always sound weird (congested, echo-ey, etc). 

[yates7592]

HD800's are indeed a legend. One of the best cans I have ever heard. Pro's are impressive soundstage, imaging, highs, deep lows, and comfort. They scale with upgraded DAC and amp like nothing else. The 6K/7K spike does not seem to be obvious on my pair. Only minus in my book is that whilst bass frequency does go very low, weight, body or punch (whatever you wish to call it) is somewhat lacking.

[vonnie123]

I think Sennheiser could win at this, if they just realize that their freefield/flat measurement of the HD800 is too bright for most music, even though it may be perfect in theory.  Once they arrive at that they can release a new $1500 headphone with that curve (and perhaps keep the 800 in production), instead of pretending to pacify users who don't like the 800's brightness with an obviously cheaper and inferior HD700.

Hmm, I kind of like my HD700s.  Inferior is not a word I would have used.

I know you review a lot of headphones, but I happen to like the HD700 driven by my Beyerdynamic A20 amp.  Great mid-price solution.