[Ultralight]

Quick question on the rated frequency response.

Presumably the frequency response published is:

1. In room?
2. What is the db down?

For example, the Super 3XRS is rated to 40 hz.  But is that at -12db? -3db?  Curious on how to read the specs on the website. 

Thanks!
UL

[mresseguie]

I've been curious about this as well. I'm very curious about the deepOMEGA 8 and the three monitors (Super 3i, Super 7, and Super Alnico).

[mnilan]

Folks:
The frequency response for each type of speaker is listed on the Omega site.  Just to to the info page or an particular speaker and voila.
Mike

[RDavidson]

They're wanting more specific info than just the frequency response limits, which is the only info posted, so one can ascertain a bit more as to how the speakers may behave in-room (given natural roll-off characteristics). It isn't entirely necessary to have these specs, but they can certainly help. With that said, it may be a little bit of a conflict of interest, because single driver speakers won't likely ever win a spec contest on paper versus more complex, multi-driver speakers. It's the nature of things as they stand given today's technologies. But any informed single driver speaker enthusiast knows that specs are just specs. We don't listen to specs. We listen to sound. It's the sound that matters ; The music, more importantly. Good single driver speakers have sonic virtues that cost $$$ to replicate in multi-driver systems. Multi-driver systems have their virtues too, but with added complexity. As we all know, there are many enthuiasts out there who ONLY judge by specs first, then their ears second. This is backward logic to me, but I think it may be good to keep further Omega specs in a gray area, so that maybe one day the backward thinkers will give Omegas a try, which would flip their whole world upside down (er...right side up, if you ask me).

[mresseguie]

Mike,

Yes. You are correct. For example the Super 3i is listed as "Frequency Response: 55 - 20kHz". What is of interest to Ultralight and myself is how those numbers are achieved. Often, a speaker manufacturer will include a litte extra information such as 'in room' or 'at -3dB, -6dB', etc. the higher the '-XdB' value, the quieter and less noticeable the sound.

Typically, full range (FR) drivers are listed as going down to 55, 67, 78 Hertz. Some folks want to hear a stronger low frequency, so knowing how the listed 55 Hz was achieved will help folks better decide if this particular speaker fits their needs.

I have a pair of FR drivers that are rated down to 76Hz (I think at -3dB). I know they lack lower bass, so I am seriously considering my purchasing one of the Omega subwoofers. I am also debating whether I want the Super 3i or the Super Alnicos.

I hope this helps.

Hi, RDAVIDSON! I agree. 

Michael

[seikosha]

FWIW, I've measured my RS5 based XRS's at the listening chair in my room with a simple meter and I get solid response down to 60hz...it starts rolling off at that point.  At 50hz I'm down about 6 decibels.  The lower limits are very typical of most bookshelf speakers.  I've measured Harbeths and Kef LS50's (among others) in the same room using the same methodology and the lower response limits are pretty similar.

The big (measureable) difference between the Omegas and most speakers in my room is that the Omegas are actually much flatter in the 100 - 300HZ range.  It's an area where most smaller speakers seem to be bloated by 4-6 db because I suppose it gives the illusion of stronger bass.  It's not there with the Omegas and how one reacts to this will probably determine if they do or don't like the speakers.

[DBC]

Sorry I can't answer your specific frequency response question, just wanted to add a couple thoughts based on my experience. When I saw that the deepOMEGE 12 was rated from 28hz to 160hz my first thought was GREAT !!!  I have a little experience with this in kind of a home brew solution over the past 3 years. I've been looking for a great speaker designer that would hone in on a Music Specific sub that works in a higher frequency range (compared to traditional subs) where most of the Bass resides in music.

This interactive frequency chart demonstrates that most music has very little going on below 40hz. On the other hand a lot is going on well up into the 150hz range (run your mouse across the chart for more info). Note the other chart off to the side indicating how much ear sensitivity to frequencies below 150hz starts to drop off. So in my book I'm looking for a music sub that will play up into the 150hz range (if I need it) to compensate for the human ears lack of sensitivity to frequencies below 150hz. IMO this is why many speakers can sound a bit thin on the low end. The speakers frequency response can be flat but the human ears sensitivity to lower frequencies is not.

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

For most a lower output limit of only 28hz would seem a limiting factor. My experience is a fast driver capable of playing clean up into the 150hz range is the most important for laying down and expanding the sound stage foundation. It's pretty common knowledge to go really low requires bigger heavier drivers (Slow). Higher frequencies require much lighter drivers (Fast). Louis has traded off the extreme Low End (where not much music happens most of the time) for a much lighter faster driver that is capable of going cleanly up in the 150hz range where there is a lot more going on and the human ear is less sensitive.

I don't mean to be speaking for Louis in any way, just my opinion based on my experience and I like what I see in the deepOMEGA 12 specifications so far. I think the pickle for a manufacturer like Omega geared toward accurate music reproduction is selling a sub that does not go down to 16hz as most of us have been conditioned to think. Personally I don't care if the deepOMEGA is -12db at 28hz. To me the attractive part is to be able to play reasonably flat and with accuracy between 40hz and 150hz.

So if your #1 priority is music, I would encourage that you try not to get too hung up on how low the deepOMEGA 12 will go and how much it rolls off on the low end. I have a re-purposed Home Theater product that I use to reinforce the 50hz to 150hz range in my system, it rolls off quickly below 50hz. I would take this over my 15" traditional sub any day for music reproduction. What I see in the deepOMEGA 12 so far seems to be a much more elegant and refined product that plays lower. I wish this had been around 3 years ago.

[JLM]

The devil is in the details (or in our case specifications). 

To do measurements, they must be done to a standard, hence the use of anechoic chambers with specific types of calibrated/certified microphones/meters carried out by an independent testing agency.  And all that doesn't come cheap.  So nearly all smaller speaker manufacturers have shy'd away from specifications (be wary of small manufacturers that do publish DETAILED specifications). 

Then there's begs two questions: how a speaker behaves in an anechoic chamber relates to "real world" conditions; and what constitutes the "real world" (big room, placement close to walls, near field, heavily treated surfaces, etc.).

It's hard for buyers and sellers of audio gear, especially speakers, without being able to audition or or at least have reliable/complete specifications.

PROVIDED CLARIFICATION

[kevtn8]

They're wanting more specific info than just the frequency response limits, which is the only info posted, so one can ascertain a bit more as to how the speakers may behave in-room (given natural roll-off characteristics). It isn't entirely necessary to have these specs, but they can certainly help. With that said, it may be a little bit of a conflict of interest, because single driver speakers won't likely ever win a spec contest on paper versus more complex, multi-driver speakers. It's the nature of things as they stand given today's technologies. But any informed single driver speaker enthusiast knows that specs are just specs. We don't listen to specs. We listen to sound. It's the sound that matters ; The music, more importantly. Good single driver speakers have sonic virtues that cost $$$ to replicate in multi-driver systems. Multi-driver systems have their virtues too, but with added complexity. As we all know, there are many enthuiasts out there who ONLY judge by specs first, then their ears second. This is backward logic to me, but I think it may be good to keep further Omega specs in a gray area, so that maybe one day the backward thinkers will give Omegas a try, which would flip their whole world upside down (er...right side up, if you ask me).

Well said, I couldn't agree more. Especially evident after I'm hearing what my Super 3XRS is capable of in a cramped, uneven and untreated room with a 2 watt Decware Zen amp. 

[JLM]

Keep in mind that few listeners have a good handle on what frequencies or what sound pressure levels are being witnessed anyway and with all the variations in how measurements are done and/or qualified from various manufacturers having the specifications does not help much in relating specifications to our experiences. 

Thats not to dismiss the value of the analytical information provided from properly obtained specifications.

[dB Cooper]

Back when I was a whippersnapper, I had a Radio Shack micromonitor with a Fostex driver in it, which I used as a rear channel speaker in a Dynaquad (remember that?) set up. RS specs listed frequency response down to 30 Hz (lower than many of their larger speakers.) While the RS speaker worked well in that set up, I seriously doubt it had any usable output at anywhere near 30 Hz. Frequency response specs are practically useless for speakers as the test conditions are rarely if ever specified and are tested differently by different mfr's. Well, not useless maybe, but take them with quite a few grains of salt. As others have suggested, let your ears be the judge.

[Jazzaudio]

I've grown to look at charts like below to help understand what I'm hearing, what I like hearing, and how are my components mesh to produce what I like.  I guess its like putting a face (instrument) to a voice (frequency response)! 

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

[JLM]

Jazzaudio, love that chart especially the interactive notes to the side describing the result of too much/too little and the descriptive ranges of effects on the bottom! 

Definitively would be useful for audiophiles and reviewers to hold to a standard set of definitions like this.

Wonder why bass is shown extending to 250 Hz (middle "C" is 256 Hz) and would like to see a "mid-bass" range defined (instead of "sub-bass").