[pwilson]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/it-was-one-of-kickstarters-most-successful-109496883039.html

Not exactly ideal listening conditions, but interesting none the less imho

[Tyson]

Most audiophiles would pay $1000 or more for a real, actual 10% difference in sound quality.  Everyone else is like, meh. 

[playntheblues]

Beyond that, the problem is everyone picked the iPhone over the Hi-res     That is were they heard the 10% improvement 

[Phil A]

Most audiophiles would pay $1000 or more for a real, actual 10% difference in sound quality.  Everyone else is like, meh.

+1 - the general public just doesn't care and just want something easy to use.  The fact that there are many iPhones out there makes it easy to back-up data and get music.

Plus what he calls fancy headphones appears to be - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html
I am not a headphone user (just gave away a couple of pairs of headphones including my old Koss Pro AAA) but I would not define that as fancy headphones if that what was used

[Tyson]

Beyond that, the problem is everyone picked the iPhone over the Hi-res     That is were they heard the 10% improvement 

No mystery - people prefer the sound of compressed music, generally speaking.  If they didn't, then there'd be no "compression wars".  And for mobile apps, I can't say I blame them - it is better when everything is equally loud, when you are in a noisy (ie, portable) environment. 

[Peter J]

I bought in during the Kickstarter campaign and have my Pono Player sitting on a shelf next to me. Bought a couple of 16/44 tracks just to get the hang of using it, having never downloaded much music before now. I'm not all that impressed with the Pono's display or functionality, but can get used to it.

I envisioned this being my ticket into hi-rez and really didn't care about portability all that much. Seemed like a easy to access one-stop-shop. Maybe it will become that, but for now the player  sits and collects dust for the want of hi-rez files and ridiculous lack of any real tool for accessing only those files on the Pono website.

Honestly, if I had it do over I'd wait and see how it developed and then maybe buy in, but it's nearly useless to me for what I intended. FWIW, I've never even listened to a hi-rez file on the thing.

In retrospect, I would have been better off to just buy hi-rez files, sourced from wherever, on my music server.

[DS-21]

The iPhone probably has a higher-fidelity headphone output: flat FR, low noise, low source impedance, adequate voltage to drive most (not all) headphones.

I've read reports that the Pono has high source impedance. Which means colored sound through lower-impedance headphones. So it's just another sadly low-fidelity "high end" audio part.

PS: The Sony '7506 were the late John Dunlavy's favorite headphones. The Wirecutter also likes them. So attacking Mr. Pogue's results based on the quality of the headphones is a decidedly dead-enders' folly.

[kingdeezie]

I suspected this would be the case with pono. I was most excited about the actual service, rather then the player. It was enticing to think that I could purchase high quality digital titles for all sorts of music that I enjoy.

Then the service became proprietary, and locked into the pono music platform, and I lost interest. Was really hoping this would be the digital availability breakthrough.

There is a difference between high resolution and rebook, but over earbuds you won't hear it. 

[jtwrace]

Jimmy said he likes it...


 


 

[SlushPuppy]

I haven't heard one mention of "Pono" from any of the young people I work with here in Houston. I brought it up a couple of times in the music conversations we've had and they looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language. They don't know about it and they don't seem to care. They seem quite satisfied with their highly compressed music downloads played on their cell phones with $20 earbuds. They don't care about high resolution audio and don't want a separate device that only plays music. A few of them said if Pono was integrated into their phones they would give it a try, but they didn't want to pay extra for it.

Sad, but true, and most of them like Jimmy Fallon.....


Slush

[firedog]

The service is totally not proprietary, anyone can buy any file download there and play them back on any player. And you can buy files from other sources and play them on the Pono Player.

But there are several other competing hi-res sites, why do you think you need Pono to get hi-res music?

I suspected this would be the case with pono. I was most excited about the actual service, rather then the player. It was enticing to think that I could purchase high quality digital titles for all sorts of music that I enjoy.

Then the service became proprietary, and locked into the pono music platform, and I lost interest. Was really hoping this would be the digital availability breakthrough.

There is a difference between high resolution and rebook, but over earbuds you won't hear it.

[Crimson]

The service is totally not proprietary, anyone can buy any file download there and play them back on any player. And you can buy files from other sources and play them on the Pono Player.

But there are several other competing hi-res sites, why do you think you need Pono to get hi-res music?

Agreed. I use it mostly to load my own hi-rez recordings (sourced from HD Tracks, Pono, artist downloads, and my own rips including 16/44.1 AIFF tracks).

[firedog]

David Pogue clearly wrote the article with the intention of slamming the Pono and hi-res.  His own test shows that about 30% of his subjects preferred the hi-res and Pono. 30% may be a minority, but it's a significant percentage of the subjects. But he  insisted on writing the article to give the impression that the people he tested didn't like it and couldn't tell the difference. Saying you wouldn't spend money on the difference is not the same as saying the difference isn't there. If he had used subjects who are truly interested in good sound, possibly the vast majority would have said they would pay  for the device to get the improvement.

Lots of my friends notice and appreciate the sound of my stereo and my upscale headphones I use with my phone. None of them would spend the money to get either for themselves. It just doesn't fit the definition of something they are willing to spend much money on.

People who are used to listening to mp3 will often prefer it; given more exposure to lossless and hi-res, they often begin to notice and appreciate the difference.

I always compare it to my bunk mate at summer camp who preferred Tang to fresh orange juice. They drank Tang at his house, and for him that was the standard by which "orange drinks" were judged. Orange juice didn't taste like Tang, so he didn't like it. I think much the same thing is going on with mp3 vs lossless and hi-res. Better sounding music can actually seem "less good" or "not sounding right" to you until you get used to it. Then you hear and appreciate it's advantages.

[charmerci]

I haven't heard one mention of "Pono" from any of the young people I work with here in Houston. I brought it up a couple of times in the music conversations we've had and they looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language. They don't know about it and they don't seem to care. They seem quite satisfied with their highly compressed music downloads played on their cell phones with $20 earbuds. They don't care about high resolution audio and don't want a separate device that only plays music.

Slush

+1 

[ted_b]

I find the idea of Pono a mixed blessing.  As a real hirez fan (duh!) I like that Neil and others have gotten behind delivering the best quality music files.  However, from day one the idea that you would be able to easily discern and appreciate hirez on portable players is silly.  It is the last 5% in a great resolving home system, let alone trying to determine it on the subway!!

[Don_S]

I haven't heard one mention of "Pono" from any of the young people I work with here in Houston. I brought it up a couple of times in the music conversations we've had and they looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language.   EDIT   

Neil Who?   

[barrows]

I suspected this would be the case with pono. I was most excited about the actual service, rather then the player. It was enticing to think that I could purchase high quality digital titles for all sorts of music that I enjoy.

Then the service became proprietary, and locked into the pono music platform, and I lost interest. Was really hoping this would be the digital availability breakthrough.

There is a difference between high resolution and rebook, but over earbuds you won't hear it.

What???  The Pono download site allows anyone to sign up and purchase music from them.  I do not own a Pono Player, and have already downloaded 24/192 music files from the Pono site.  In my mind, another download site offering high resolution music files is a win for me.
For average folks, listening to music as a background to another activity, I really do not think high resolution is much (if at all) of an advantage.
On the Pono Player, does anyone know the technical details yet?  I know that Ayre was involved in the design, and am wondering if they implemented their proprietary digital filters...  If they did, one could note that the Ayre minimum phase filters are designed to make normal resolution audio files sound better.  The Ayre filters reduce the difference between high resolution files and Redbook: it might be a little ironic if the Pono Player actually lessens the audible difference between Redbook and high resolution playback...

[ted_b]

It is fairly clear that David's test was fraught with too many variables (let alone being done with folks who have no clue of what to listen for...many times hirez is not earth shattering but instead non-fatiguing over long sessions).  And portability, as I said ealrlier, is a huge sonic obstacle.  But...Cookie takes it to another level.  Her invitation is fun reading.  She is one of a kind.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, here's my open letter to David Pogue's more recent revision his blog.. posted Feb 4. I've offer him to come to my studio openly. Here's my letter to him.

Posted Feb 5, 2015
David, it's okay if you don't want to convert your music collection to high resolution audio. Relax, no one is trying get you to switch from mp3 if you're happy.

My company sells high resolution audio downloads in a format you may not be aware of... DSD (Direct Stream Digital). I routinely give lectures on "provenance" -- the history/legacy of a recording. There are at least 6 stages to consider when spending $6/song (yes, that's what people will pay us and want more).

Either you hear the difference or you don't. Our customers do. I'm sure you would hear the difference when given a true comparison test.. the question is "do you care"... not "can you hear the difference". We have enough customers who care, so I'm not worried about mainstream adoption.

But, I would like to talk about your comparison test. Your method was somewhat akin to a guy on the street doing a lie detector test to determine someone's fate going to prison. It takes a professional to do a lie detector test or an audio comparison test. Audio comparison variables are too great and it's very hard to do.

I've been doing AB blindfold tests for than 30 years working as a consultant to pro audio and consumer divisions selling audio gear. It's not easy to create a fair test. Unfortunately, you didn't.

Here's the first place you went wrong.... Apples and Oranges

Apples... output of devices are not the same sonically (meaning frequency response for instance and other colorations determined by taste of manufacturer). If you're testing the Pono for quality as a device, then you test with the same file and format (exact, not purchase from different sources) knowing with confidence it is not a digital generation different. Getting those files is not easy. That's why you need controlled files.

Oranges... the formats.. if you're goal is to compare formats, then you need to get various formats on one device and compare from that device. You'll want reliable source material (same situation as apples) that was well recorded so that the frequencies of high and low (where high resolution audio matters) can be heard. Sorry, most pop music is run through so many filters, plugins and low fi alterations it's not usable to compare formats. The audiophile community has a lot of discussions going on about this already and I would agree that buyer be aware.

There are a minimum of 6 stages where audio quality can be diminished before it hits the consumer. Three of those stages occur after the artist/producer hands it over to the label. The labels don't care.. they don't know where their original masters are. Sad.

I can help you set up a test... or better yet... I invite you to our studio to have us give you a listening test... not to convert you to high resolution audio, but as the technology reporter, a musician and journalist, you sincerely want to report accurately to your audience.

Our studios are in the San Francisco area.

Cookie Marenco
Blue Coast Records
my bio for reference
http://bluecoastmusic.com/about-the-founder
I'm easy to find.

Have a great day.

(By the way, for those reading this who fear their mp3 collection is being threatened.. take a chill pill. You can listen to all our music at no charge in streaming mp3 on YouTube...

[Phil A]

Great letter. Before posting his little video, which really shows he is not on top of his game when it comes to apples to apples comparisons, he should have at least taken the time to educate himself.

In the past many moons ago I've done A/B comparisons (I had a Proceed AVP which easily allowed for connections of two digital cables I could have someone else put in without me seeing) and had people over who believed a cable is a cable.  It was kind of funny when after they were able to identify differences it had to be some other reason (e.g. a defect in the preamp connections and that was eliminated during the test). I had engineers who wanted to take apart the preamp (until the results showed it could not be a hardware issue).  I learned there are those people who believe what they believe and they are not interested in even believing what their own ears told them.

[BobC]

I'm confused, I think.  (or maybe I'm not...)

Pono player, is just another high rez player...only portable, correct?  So in a fixed system its no different from a Squeezebox, Bluesound Node, etc....correct?

Pono Music Store sells the high rez files.....which are 24/96 or 24/192 FLAC....and can be played on any sort of player.  So don't you NEED a Pono player to play them, correct?  From a quick look the available library looks about equal to HDtracks.  What is the difference between Pono Music Store and HD Tracks?

So, I'm not seeing the Pono appeal for me personally.  Is the idea to appeal to quality minded younger people who insist of mobility?  (which of course I encourage)

My prediction....this goes nowhere unless the attention prompts Apple to adopt high-rez via iTunes.