[Redbone]

I really liked the article where a guy compared the "network" boxes between MIT and Transparent.
http://cable.tcnerd.com/whymit.asp

Putting an inducter in series in the speaker cable, I love it.  

It occured to me several months ago when I was working on my speakers that it is very difficult to hear even large changes, like swapping out drivers, especially if there is not a reference (unmodified speaker) to compare the modified speaker with.  This lead me to conclude that most of the benefit from things like cables and ICs is really just imagined.  But then I thought, what a manufacturer really needs to do is change the sound, doesn't matter if it's better or worse, that's kind of subjective anyway.  Just do something that changes the sound, and charge a lot of money for it.  The consumer will hear the change, associate it with the huge price, interpret it as "better", and voila, $10K speaker cables.

[DVV]

I really liked the article where a guy compared the "network" boxes between MIT and Transparent.
http://cable.tcnerd.com/whymit.asp

Kudos to that guy, I gladly take my hat off to him! And thank you for providing the link, it amply illustrates what I have been saying is going on for at least 15 years now.

In far too many cases, a giant rip-off.

Ciao,
DVV

[WerTicus]

this is why i am all about DIY

i did the DIY cat five cables ... cost 70 bucks in parts to make myself a pair of cables 6 metres long that sound better than anything you can buy

Since its proven that the lower the inductance the better the rise time response of the cable is and this all based in science and not magic tricks i choose the extremely low inductance design offered by the braiding of cat5

sounds fantastic... the BEST

unless its silver, but i could make the same sort of thing with silver too for far less than the dollars that get charged for these things..... if i wanted to.

It gives you a sense of pride that your not a totally useless consumer whore.

My stereo in which I made everything except for the player gives me a greater sense of satisfaction than the stereo you just paid 10x too much for?  

maybe im the crazy one.

i think ill take my cables to pat of war audio whom no doubt you guys have heard of and get his opinion on my cables.

[nathanm]

re:
http://cable.tcnerd.com/whymit.asp

 So Transparent are a bunch of shysters for their boxes full of inductors and resistors that'll cost you 10 grand but MIT is white as snow because they, uh, have 20 parts in their little box instead of 3 or 4 and charge the same outrageous price?  That page would be cool if it was just some dude calling shenanigans, but the guy is selling cables too!

So people don't like tone controls, they don't like crossovers if they can avoid them, but cables with those parts in there altering the sound is high fidelity?    Isn't plain wire a more "purist" approach?  Run your cable through a guitar pedal if you want effects, and save about $9700!

[Dan Banquer]

"So people don't like tone controls, they don't like crossovers if they can avoid them, but cables with those parts in there altering the sound is high fidelity?  Isn't plain wire a more "purist" approach? Run your cable through a guitar pedal if you want effects, and save about $9700! "
  NATHAN! Stop clouding the issues with facts!
               d.b.
P.S. Personally, I'd love to hear a stereo through a WAWA pedal.

[audioengr]

EAD is owned by Tara labs and I have good reason to believe this company is in real trouble.  I would be very cautious buying EAD equipment if warranty/long term backup is important to you.

Joe M.

EAD = Enlightened Audio Designs  They seem like a pretty good company.  I have modded their stuff and it is very nice indeed.

Tara gives the whole cable industry a bad name.  One of the reasons that I got into modding was that I found that in the last 2-3 years, everybody thinks they are qualified to design cables.  No technology required. And the one with the deepest pockets for advertising gets the most sales. Prices seem to be set according to what people are willing to pay after these advertising blitzes.  An Stereophile is not helping - they rate components - they just list cables. Some of Taras top of line cables actually have some interesting technology, but false advertising on their lower tiers is totally unacceptable in my book.

[nathanm]

How many parts are involved in a typical bass treble boost\cut circuit?  Surely the range of beneficial 'effect' offered by such a circuit would far exceed ANY variance possible in a 'passive' cable, right?  If you want to add electrical parts to tweak the sound I'm all for it, but why not make it variable, make it obvious and put the listener in control of the effect?

Just about every frequency plot you see of gear be it speakers or amps etc. has one thing in common - the bass gradually rolls off and the treble gradually rolls off in one way or another.  So why not have a tone control which affects these areas?  For what people pay for cables you can't tell me that you can't make a really clean sounding two band tone control.  Cripes, there's EQs on multi-kilobuck mastering gear isn't there?  You know, what the music went through before you got it?

[DVV]

How many parts are involved in a typical bass treble boost\cut circuit?  Surely the range of beneficial 'effect' offered by such a circuit would far exceed ANY variance possible in a 'passive' cable, right?  If you want to add electrical parts to tweak the sound I'm all for it, but why not make it variable, make it obvious and put the listener in control of the effect?

Just about every frequency plot you see of gear be it speakers or amps etc. has one thing in common - the bass gradually rolls off and th ...

Come to my arms, dear boy, you make weep of joy! Bless you!

Cheers,
DVV

[nathanm]

Thanks Dejan!  But seriously, what do you need to boost or cut a specific frequency band?  I don't know much about electronics, but I'm curious about what doodads you need to do such a thing.  Like if I want a 6db boost centered at 12KHz with a 2 octave bandwidth what\how many gubbins are involved?  Is it way more than the parts in these MIT or Transparent cables?

[Dan Banquer]

Sounds like you need an equalizer. They come in two flavors, digital and analog. If you are using your computer as a source than there is plenty of software out there to manipulate what comes our of your soundcard. Have fun.
         d.b.

[nathanm]

No, I'm talking theory, the actual parts.  Resistors, caps, inductors etc.  What's the simplest form of tone control?

[mcrespo71]

re:
http://cable.tcnerd.com/whymit.asp

 So Transparent are a bunch of shysters for their boxes full of inductors and resistors that'll cost you 10 grand but MIT is white as snow because they, uh, have 20 parts in their little box instead of 3 or 4 and charge the same outrageous price?  That page would be cool if it was just some dude calling shenanigans, but the guy is selling cables too!

Though they both use networks, MIT and Transparent are not the same.  One of the assumptions that many make about MIT is that they are simply putting Zobels or noise filters in series.  However, the "20 parts" in the box are parallel networks, so none of the parts is sitting directly in the signal
path.  Because of the MIT patents (27 total awarded), Transparent must use an inductor in series and
then some caps for tuning.  Bottom line is this, Tranparent cables are a low pass filter, while MIT is a reactance control product, whose main goal is to deliver power in phase to load.

Michael

[DVV]

Thanks Dejan!  But seriously, what do you need to boost or cut a specific frequency band?  I don't know much about electronics, but I'm curious about what doodads you need to do such a thing.  Like if I want a 6db boost centered at 12KHz with a 2 octave bandwidth what\how many gubbins are involved?  Is it way more than the parts in these MIT or Transparent cables?

Well, if you want analog tone controls, then yes, they do use more parts than that cable. That said, I must also point out that if the said tone controls are active, then their effect will generally be smoother than with passive controls, or so I think.

But this is not directly comparable, because with tone controls, classic, equalizer or paramteric equalizer, you have multiple choices which you do not have with the cable. You can boost or cut, and you determine how much when. Next, you can do so at both frequency extremes no problemo, which gives you yet more flexibility than fixed in cable.

In essence, there are only two possible major problems with tone controls, which can mess up the sound. One is that too much action has been provided for too low, so they start to mess with the midrange, which is a no-no kind of a booboo. The other is that they have been poorly designed, with savings in materials and quality, in which case they will mess up the sound for sure.

Believe it or not, the second possibility is the culprit in over 80% of all cases I have ever seen or heard. My most usual cure was to change some component values and reduce their overall action from something wild like +/-15 dB to something more reasonable like +/-3...4 dB, and then I'd change the crappy op amps they get paid to install inside with something decent. And presto, the whole thing changes drastically, plus you get control over your frequency spectrum.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

Now that both MIT and Transparent have been brought in, I just have to say my piece.

I have owned, and still have some MIT cables. I can't say I noticed any difference between them and quality copper cabling. Their prices were reasonable, for Terminator 5 and Terminator 4 cables.

I have also had the opportunity to audition them against Transparent's offering; I don't remember the model designation, but the local price was like $1K.

Ever since then, Transparent has been high on my bull list. I swapped it around my three resident systems, and wherever I put it, I got sound dead as a door nail. That cable so effectively killed life in sound that I was amazed. Doubly so after reading their sales literature, with pretty pictures of Him and Her playing the piano, of the sedate and sage atmosphere in the company, of everybody having a grave yet benevolent look in their quest of bringing light to audio.

In short, Transparent Audio cable is the most effective way of spending your money in the most stupid manner available that I know of. You might as well light cigars with $100 notes.

Not that I was very happy with MIT either, but there is the matter of the huge price difference in MIT's favor, and while it did nothing for me, it didn't mess anything up either.

Cheers,
DVV

[nathanm]

That cable so effectively killed life in sound that I was amazed. Doubly so after reading their sales literature, with pretty pictures of Him and Her playing the piano, of the sedate and sage atmosphere in the company, of everybody having a grave yet benevolent look in their quest of bringing light to audio.

 That's awesome - I bet we won't be seeing any of your quoted reviews in their ads!

Here's an idea: why not sell just the stuff inside the epoxied-up box with two RCA jacks on either end and let the user provide their own cables?  You know, like a little adaptor jobbie.  Heck, that should only cost...a few thousand.  Tops!

[jackman]

Hey, it looks like the owner of Tara Labs might go from swapping stickers on cables to swapping bodily fluids with some burley cellmate!  

Or...it looks like he'll be getting a little bit of what he's been giving to his customers!  That one is more descrete...


Jman

[DVV]

 That's awesome - I bet we won't be seeing any of your quoted reviews in their ads!

Here's an idea: why not sell just the stuff inside the epoxied-up box with two RCA jacks on either end and let the user provide their own cables?  You know, like a little adaptor jobbie.  Heck, that should only cost...a few thousand.  Tops!

Better yet, why not cast white magic spells? You pay me, I come over and enchant your system into being the world's best, for a meagre sum of $1,000, plus expenses of say $2,000.

I might also entrance your mom's Mac, and sure, your toilet seat too, why not? Hey, if you've got it, flaunt it.

Of course, I'd have to grow a beard, start wearing polo necks and learn to ooze that faraway look of those deepely involved with infinity (as for time, not the speakers).

And I could print stickers saying "Enchanted in USA, not Transylvania".

Cheers,
DVV

[Hifi Nut]

Hi WerTicus

May I know where do you buy your low inductance cat 5 cable? Thanks.

[Rob Babcock]

A Cat 5 cable recipe would be appreciated, too.   I've heard enough people talk about using such cables to pique my interest, and the cost should be pretty low.

[WerTicus]

You buy cat5 cable from your local electronics store

the cable itself is not low inductance its the technique of braiding it that makes it so.

its important that you get CAT5e.. which is teflon coated cable... and you want the solid cored version of it too.. this is the important part

once you have the cable you then follow these simple instructions

http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

and then you start a thread and tell me what you think... expect it to take you all weekend to make them because there is a fair amount of braiding involved but it is DEFINATLY worth the effort - your going to be blown away

the site above has links to other peoples comments and advice about how to do it properly and i am going to be taking my cables to pat of war audio fame (designed the speakers that won at ces 2001) and give him a listen because he has yet to hear them.

the cost is N metres x 14 x 50cents