[t-dog]

I'm wanting to upgrade my dedicated home theater to an Atmos setup. I currently have a complete set of GR Research AV series speakers. I'd like to stay with the same driver setup for the ceiling speakers but need to see if I can get the AV1 in a cabinet that is more shallow and possibly sealed or ported with the port exiting somewhere other than the back of the cabinet since they will be ceiling mounted. My ceiling is black and I plan to finish the cabinets in black so they blend in. Dannie, any thoughts?

[Folsom]

Would a slot vent be better to reduce interaction between it and the woofer?

[Danny Richie]

I am not a big fan of ceiling speakers myself. They are quite directional and don't really excel at what they are typically used for (rear surround duty).

Atmos might be the new catch phase of the year but in reality the limitations of the room size will play a greater roll in speaker placement.

Ideally you want the rear speakers to be as far away from you as the front speakers. In practice though few have that luxury. And this is why the omni directional design of the A/V-1RS is often a much better solution. I'd strongly recommend them for those applications.

[charmerci]

I'm wanting to upgrade my dedicated home theater to an Atmos setup. I currently have a complete set of GR Research AV series speakers. I'd like to stay with the same driver setup for the ceiling speakers but need to see if I can get the AV1 in a cabinet that is more shallow and possibly sealed or ported with the port exiting somewhere other than the back of the cabinet since they will be ceiling mounted. My ceiling is black and I plan to finish the cabinets in black so they blend in. Dannie, any thoughts?

Another option is if your listening room has flat ceilings 8-13' high, Atmos works with upward firing speakers also which may sound better than ceiling speakers.

[t-dog]

I currently use the AV-1 RS's for my side and rear speakers and love them. I'd still like to make 2 pair of speakers to mount to the ceiling since that seems to be the optimal setup for Atmos. The up-firing speakers you can add to the tops of your front left and right speakers work well but from respected reviewers they typically say that ceiling mounted speakers excel in an Atmos setup. Setting opinions aside can a suggested enclosure be recommended that is sealed or ported that is approx 6-8" in depth? Length and width are irrelevant . Thanks in advance.

[Danny Richie]

The A/V-1RS can also be ceiling mounted and face the rear wall (16" from the wall) and still create the big non-localized sound field that is ideal for rear surrounds.

[mlundy57]

As I understand Dolby Atmos, the ceiling speakers are intended to be localized point sources so that specific sounds can pan from front to rear, left to right, etc. They are not intended to be non-localized surround channels.

So with Atmos, you would still have your normal 5 or 7 speaker surround setup plus either 2 or 4 directional speakers in the ceiling.

[Folsom]

Adding speakers in theater always seems like the cheap way to enhance the experience. I've always gotten more out of quality than quantity, here, you might say.

While some movies are a little off-beat on their presentation of 2 channel, I love watching a movie at my fathers place. I gave him a 1543 Peter Daniel's DAC that his DVD player feeds into, and some Hawthorn Silver Iris speakers modified with Obbligato Golds and deadened. They're on top of some musical low playing large subwoofers (efficient) and there's an old 15in Adire Tempest for real low notes. (unfortunately the neighbor isn't a fan). He doesn't give two shits about the fact that he's not using all 7 channels on his receiver. This is making me want to go watch The Expendables at his place again... Once in awhile the voices in the center could be stronger, but the music sound track, explosions, gun shots, etc, are very engaging. It's better than the big screen (well that I've been too). Ironically he still has an older 200+lb Sony CRT. Nice picture, awfully small in widescreen.

[Danny Richie]

As I understand Dolby Atmos, the ceiling speakers are intended to be localized point sources so that specific sounds can pan from front to rear, left to right, etc. They are not intended to be non-localized surround channels.

So with Atmos, you would still have your normal 5 or 7 speaker surround setup plus either 2 or 4 directional speakers in the ceiling.

Move makers aren't laying down multiple tracks for playback. Those receivers are just processing and splitting signals from what's there. So I really question how well it is going to work and if the new format has any staying power. 

[mlundy57]

Move makers aren't laying down multiple tracks for playback. Those receivers are just processing and splitting signals from what's there. So I really question how well it is going to work and if the new format has any staying power.

I agree. I watched the third Hobit movie in a new Atmos theater and I really couldn't hear any difference. I am perfectly content with the 7.1 system in the living room and 5.1 system in the smaller room upstairs. How many speakers can you actually make sense of in a normal size room at home anyway?

[Skiman]

Move makers aren't laying down multiple tracks for playback. Those receivers are just processing and splitting signals from what's there. So I really question how well it is going to work and if the new format has any staying power.

Dolby Atmos is based on 'audio objects' rather than channel based:

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos.html

As is the upcoming DTS X.

Only a handful of Blu ray movies are out now that are encoded with Dolby Atmos, but more are promised. I too am interested in adding ceiling mounted speakers.

[t-dog]

I appreciate the comments so far but still don't have a solution. Placing additional AV-1RS's on the ceiling and firing them off a side wall is not going to work for Atmos. The ceiling speakers as mentioned are intended to be a localized source for overhead sound effects. While many movies won't be mixed with these effects there will be some that incorporate these overhead 'audio objects' and add a nice effect (rain, helicopters, thunder, ...) . I'm sure I can just slap a set of AV-1's in a box that's going to work in my setting I was just hoping for advice on dimentions, cu ft. Specifications, etc.

[Early B.]

I appreciate the comments so far but still don't have a solution.

The solution is simple -- just buy some ceiling speakers. 

You can't simply place AV1 drivers in a more shallow box and suspend them from your ceiling for an Atmos setup.  This would require a re-design for its intended purpose, and Danny has already expressed his opinion on pursuing it.

[Danny Richie]

Dolby Atmos is based on 'audio objects' rather than channel based:

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos.html

As is the upcoming DTS X.

Only a handful of Blu ray movies are out now that are encoded with Dolby Atmos, but more are promised. I too am interested in adding ceiling mounted speakers.

You mean the only way it works is if the movie is recorded in Atmos?

Who knows if the format will even make it? It might be another SACD....

That is a bit like going out now and buying a DAC that will do DSD, but not having any music recorded in that format.

[t-dog]

The solution is simple -- just buy some ceiling speakers.

You can't simply place AV1 drivers in a more shallow box and suspend them from your ceiling for an Atmos setup.  This would require a re-design for its intended purpose, and Danny has already expressed his opinion on pursuing it.

Well I can see where this is going. It's obvious I could buy ceiling speakers. Feel like opinions are outweighing the conversation here. If it can't be done then fine it can't be done. If it can be done and no one wants to rework the design to make it work then that's understandable too but just say so. I understand working the design out to make it optimal is a lot of work especially on an new technology we don't know the future of. I was looking for something along the lines of " use the AV1-RS crossover network and put them in a .7 cu ft box and they will be ok. Not looking for perfection just something that would blend in with all the other GR Research speakers I have. 

[Danny Richie]

Well I can see where this is going. It's obvious I could buy ceiling speakers. Feel like opinions are outweighing the conversation here. If it can't be done then fine it can't be done. If it can be done and no one wants to rework the design to make it work then that's understandable too but just say so. I understand working the design out to make it optimal is a lot of work especially on an new technology we don't know the future of. I was looking for something along the lines of " use the AV1-RS crossover network and put them in a .7 cu ft box and they will be ok. Not looking for perfection just something that would blend in with all the other GR Research speakers I have.

You can use an A/V-1, but the added surface reflections of the ceiling will cause some roughness in the response and some heaviness in the bass area. It might still be better than most commercial ceiling speakers.

I am just a bit of a perfectionist so it didn't get a high recommendation.

[Skiman]

It seems to me that a 'ceiling speaker' could be any of three general types depending on how it is mounted or positioned.

   1. 'In' ceiling, that is, recessed so that the driver (i.e. front) surface is flush with the ceiling.
   2. 'On' ceiling, mounted with a surface, usually the rear, of the speaker against the ceiling
   3. Hung from the ceiling, perhaps with a bracket that would allow it to be rotated and/or aimed.

So couldn't a monitor or mini monitor be hung with just enough distance from the ceiling to perform as designed? A ceiling is just another surface area, it just happens to be horizontal instead of vertical. Dolby Atmos has locations specified for both two and four ceiling speaker layouts.

[Hank]

Danny, you can certainly pooh-pooh Dolby Atmos and DTS-X as a purist, but please consider keeping an open mind, as this could be an opportunity for a GR Research Immersive speaker line.  There WILL be demand for these immersive soundfield formats.  There will be lots of remasters and new movies with the imbedded sound objects.  Name brand speakers are already out there:  floor and stand mounted with upward firing drivers (and on-ceiling speakers IIRC).  Many people will be buying those.  I'm sure a percent of them are DIY-ers and would welcome a much less expensive GR solution.
Just a suggestion

[Danny Richie]

Danny, you can certainly pooh-pooh Dolby Atmos and DTS-X as a purist, but please consider keeping an open mind, as this could be an opportunity for a GR Research Immersive speaker line.  There WILL be demand for these immersive soundfield formats.  There will be lots of remasters and new movies with the imbedded sound objects.  Name brand speakers are already out there:  floor and stand mounted with upward firing drivers (and on-ceiling speakers IIRC).  Many people will be buying those.  I'm sure a percent of them are DIY-ers and would welcome a much less expensive GR solution.
Just a suggestion

I don't take the suggestion lightly. I have had it on my mind.

It won't be real hard to design a ceiling mounted speaker from the acoustic standpoint. The real question to me is mounting it and covering it with a grill. Distance between studs as a standard and the variances of that is another issue. Making it look good is the real trick.

[gab]

The link below is well worth watching for a better understanding of Atmos.

I agree with Hank's comments that people will be upgrading their dedicated home theaters to incorporate immersive audio in the near future. It would be nice to see some GR Research options for doing that.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/138-avs-forum-podcasts/1773370-acoustics-immersive-audio.html

My $0.02

gab