[ctviggen]

My new Outback comes in a few weeks.

The newer Outbacks are nicer (and bigger) than the old ones.  For instance, on our Outback (a 2007?), there is no window frame on the doors. Instead, they used a cheesy massive rubber area around the door frame to keep out water.  That rubber is constantly coming off.  The newer Outbacks actually have a window frame on the door. 

Ours has had some problems, though, including a broken rear axle.  And hopefully they've updated the automatic climate control, as ours is the worst climate control I've ever seen.  With my old Saab, I never touched the automatic climate control.  With our Subaru, we immediately take it out of automatic climate control if it somehow gets in it, as the climate control tends to go to incredibly high fan speeds for some reason. 

Also, comparing the 2007 Outback with a 2010 VW Jetta "Sportwagen", to me, the Jetta is better designed and rides much better.  The Outback has about 35,000 more miles on it, though, so it's hard to perform a complete comparison.  The maintenance costs are a little higher for the Jetta, though I'm taking the Jetta to the dealer, as I can get rides to and from work by the dealer.  The Jetta is diesel, too, so there are some extra costs with that.

[DaveC113]

Subaru is basically a division of Toyota at this point, in 2008 their influence is extremely obvious and they had a hand in completely reorganizing Subaru and rearranging their models. The old Impreza platform was junked and from '08 until the new Impreza came out ('12?) it was built on a 2" shorter Legacy platform.

Some big advantages are that Toyota shared their ABS/stability control system with Subaru, making the Impreza WRX one or the fastest stopping cars in the world and giving Subaru a fairly effective stability control system that can apply brakes to each wheel individually.

Other nice things like door frames were added and safety improved even more...

Subaru would not exist without Toyota, overall it has been a huge benefit for Subaru and Subaru owners.

[Peter J]

Subaru is basically a division of Toyota at this point, in 2008 their influence is extremely obvious and they had a hand in completely reorganizing Subaru and rearranging their models. The old Impreza platform was junked and from '08 until the new Impreza came out ('12?) it was built on a 2" shorter Legacy platform.

Some big advantages are that Toyota shared their ABS/stability control system with Subaru, making the Impreza WRX one or the fastest stopping cars in the world and giving Subaru a fairly effective stability control system that can apply brakes to each wheel individually.

Other nice things like door frames were added and safety improved even more...

Subaru would not exist without Toyota, overall it has been a huge benefit for Subaru and Subaru owners.

Well, I learned something today. I guess I'm just a little out of touch with who's owning who these days!

[Don_S]

EDIT

Subaru would not exist without Toyota, overall it has been a huge benefit for Subaru and Subaru owners.

What did Toyota get out of helping a competitor?  Could any royalties on technology be worth it?  2004 Highlander driven here.  My last Subaru (1986) was my last Subaru-ever.  Too many troubles with it. I realize the newer ones are a lot better but so far my Highlander makes me want to be a repeat customer of Toyota.

[blutto]

If I was getting a new car, it would be a Subaru. They have always caught my eye. It seems like they are the best kept secret in the industry. Somewhat of a cult following for people who enjoy getting in their cars each morning.

...yup...no make that a double yup....have a 2.5 GT wagon that was just a tick slower than that year's STI ( about 260hp in a vehicle that is around 3000lb....with a 4.11 rear end...so do the math....not that fast but can be real quick....) yet with a reasonably compliant suspension....a great daily driver with the capability to be wild fun on the right tires...

...and this fun comes with no attention grabbing boy racer paraphernalia....sort of a hooligan in a tweed sports coat....and a very serious blast in crazy snow...

Cheers

[blutto]

Subaru is basically a division of Toyota at this point, in 2008 their influence is extremely obvious and they had a hand in completely reorganizing Subaru and rearranging their models. The old Impreza platform was junked and from '08 until the new Impreza came out ('12?) it was built on a 2" shorter Legacy platform.

Some big advantages are that Toyota shared their ABS/stability control system with Subaru, making the Impreza WRX one or the fastest stopping cars in the world and giving Subaru a fairly effective stability control system that can apply brakes to each wheel individually.

Other nice things like door frames were added and safety improved even more...

Subaru would not exist without Toyota, overall it has been a huge benefit for Subaru and Subaru owners.

....if memory serves me right that is not quite so....GM at one point had a 25% share of Subaru ( which is why we saw Saab badged Subaru WRX's for a while...great vehicles btw...) but they sold it back to Subaru which in turn sold that share to Toyota....

...so Toyota has a significant interest but not a controlling interest ( which was part of the deal...again if memory serves me correctly )...the idea was to cement a stable relationship that would allow the "safe" transfer of technologies....initially diesel engine designs and fuel management technologies to Subaru and 4wd technologies to Toyota ( and with other exchanges of emerging technologies to follow...)....

....all that being said the agreement could have since evolved into something entirely different and I could be way off base...

Cheers

[DaveC113]

What did Toyota get out of helping a competitor?  Could any royalties on technology be worth it?  2004 Highlander driven here.  My last Subaru (1986) was my last Subaru-ever.  Too many troubles with it. I realize the newer ones are a lot better but so far my Highlander makes me want to be a repeat customer of Toyota.

Toyota will make money, they bought a large percentage of Subaru, last I heard around 25% but my info is not up to date.

I think Subaru and Toyota are about equal as far as reliability and build quality at this point. They share a lot of production, you'll notice many of the colors are the same, interior materials are the same, even the exterior styling of the new 2015 Toyota and Subaru models look like they were done in the same studio. Check out the new WRX next to the new 4Runner...

The issue with Toyota SUVs and trucks in the dismal fuel economy, the domestic brands are doing much better there... Suburbans are even getting 20+ mpg highway. The new Ram 1500 diesel that is rated 28 mpg is awesome, we should have had trucks like that for the last 15 years at least, but finally a 1/2 ton diesel is here! The Toyota are really nice though, a friend has a loaded 2013 Tundra, we've taken it mt biking in Moab among other trips and it's like driving a luxury car... but it only gets 14 mpg on most trips even with mostly highway driving.

[DaveC113]

....which is why we saw Saab badged Subaru WRX's for a while...great vehicles btw..

I didn't say Toyota had a controlling interest.

The Saab branded WRXs were really nice, they had more sound deadening and Sti steering... not sure if the resale is the same as the Subaru version though.

[blutto]

I didn't say Toyota had a controlling interest.

The Saab branded WRXs were really nice, they had more sound deadening and Sti steering... not sure if the resale is the same as the Subaru version though.

...no, you said, "Subaru is basically a division of Toyota at this point" which kinda implies something more than a casual interest, in fact it sounds like a great deal more than even controlling ...or am I wrong there?...

Cheers

[JLM]

I understand that Toyota has a 1/6th stake in Subaru.  I own both, a 2012 Camry SE (my 5th Toyota) and a 2009 Outback 2.5i.  Like both cars. 

The Camry is smooth, larger, and much cheaper to own: 34 mpg on rural/flat driving, $300 total for scheduled maintenance over 75,000 miles.  The only downside is the extremely poorly rated tires that came on it (live in Michigan and a tire fanatic, so swapped them out immediately).

The Outback feels so solid, love the growl of the engine, have every confidence that it well get through whatever snow is out there.  But the big downside is frequency/expense of maintenance: $7200 total for scheduled maintenance plus brakes, hatch handle, etc. over 125,000 miles.

[luckyguy]

Hey JLM.  Where did you get that 7000 dollar maintenance figure?  Seems awfully high compared to that Camry.  I have an 07 Camry which I am thinking of trading in for an Outback or Forrester.  Reliability and low cost of maintenance being in the forefront of my thinking.  Like this thread.

[edfowler]

My wife just got her (and our) first Subaru. We drove over to the store that is next to the factory in Lafayette and snatched up a 2015 Outback within minutes of it becoming available.  These brand new Outbacks seem to be hard to find.  We almost ordered one made for us the night before for $2500 more than we paid for this one.  I guess we are just blessed.

The Outback is so hard to find I think because it only lists for $1000 more than the Forrester and it has quite a few more amenities than the Forrester.

I feel confident that my wife will be as safe as she can be out on the slick snow covered roads during the winter.

Very happy with the new car.  Her last two cars were Mini Coopers, one used and one new.  We still have the 2008.  I wouldn't buy a Mini again.  They each have inherent problems that Mini doesn't own up to and it is expensive as heck to have them worked on.

[shadowlight]

Subaru has to have one of the best customer satisfaction ratios in the business. We bought an Outlook in 2012 and just absolutely love it. What other car do you see on the road for 15-20 years, where the owners say they will never get rid of the car and it has no problems?

I plan to run my 1998 Legacy in the ground.  It has ~183K miles on it and still running well.  Just regular maintenance on yearly basis (mostly oil change).  We also own 2014 Forester which is my primary drive.

[TomS]

...
I feel confident that my wife will be as safe as she can be out on the slick snow covered roads during the winter.
...

You might want to consider some winter wheels/tires in those conditions. I have them on both cars and have no worries.

[edfowler]

You might want to consider some winter wheels/tires in those conditions. I have them on both cars and have no worries.

Yea, we asked the dealer about that and it came with the best tires for that.  She has the Subaru remote start and 100k bumper to bumper warranty so there should be no worries.