[Ultralight]

Hope everyone had a blessed Christmas season. 

OK, some newbie queries. 

The only dipole speakers I've heard are Martin Logans. I've never heard any open baffle cone based speakers.  However, I do love the ML sound.

So a few questions:

1. Why so few commercial open baffle speakers?

When looking at the circles at this moment, the boxed speakers circle has 12,534 posts with 694 topics while the open baffle circle has 20,373 posts with 1015 topics. So there is clearly no lack of interest with open baffle speakers.

Yet commercially, boxed speakers dominate in number of manufacturers and presumably units sold.

Why?

I'd love to be able to find some OB to hear but there is none in the retail stores in my are.

2. Do they give a larger soundstage, scale and depth - possibly giving a larger sense of scale for small rooms?

While I have never heard the coned OB speakers, my understanding is that OB gives a more spacious sound if they are moved out at least 3feet/1meter from the front wall.  If so, would these be better than boxed speakers for those who like a large spacious sound? 

3. Are they possibly better for small room due to the dipole pattern?

Since they are also supposed to have less room interaction due to the dipole pattern where less energy is directed at the side walls, perhaps that's another plus for a small room.  True or not?

4. How is their imaging precision? 

If they do give a larger sense of space and scale, do they also give accurate positioning of the instruments/performers or are they more diffiused in imaging precision?

Thanks again to all who have helped in answering to my myriads of queries in this circle.  I find that I get the most helpful responses in this forum compared to other forums so perhaps my queries are indeed rather 'newbie'ish.   

5. If i want to try OB out on a budget, what commercial units are a good place to start?  I am quite curious about the OB sound indeed.

You guys have been champs! 

Thanks,
UL

[JohnR]

The OB circle is much older than Enclosures. Most of it, however, is DIY. Commercial OB speakers tend to be large and expensive, although  Omega has a hybrid. You could also look at Emerald Physics.  GR Research has kits (I think the full OB ones might have been discontinued but there are also hybrids), other options if you are interested in DIY but don't want to fully roll your own might be Hawthorne Audio, Hestia which you'll find just down the page, and Linkwitz Labs.

[THROWBACK]

By all means, check out GR Research. Danny has OB designs to fit every room and his prices are quite reasonable. I am running his giant LS-9 with a pair of his OB/servo subs and it is the best sound I have ever had. For the first time in 60 years as an audiophile my system has disappeared, leaving only the orchestra in front of me.

[Guy 13]

Hi Ultralight,
I agree Danny Ritchie at GR Research is the first place you should look.

Guy 13 on planet Vietnam.

[matevana]

Hi,

Just my 2 cents...

1. Why so few commercial open baffle speakers?

OB speakers thrive when they are placed 3-4 feet away from the wall behind them. This is a deal breaker for some folks. They also portray true, realistic bass and not what he have been "conditioned" to expect. They do not energize (load) the room in the way boxed speakers do. You also have to be willing to accept the "look" which often includes seeing the rear of the drivers, some exposed wiring, etc. 

2. Do they give a larger soundstage, scale and depth - possibly giving a larger sense of scale for small rooms?

A well designed OB will throw the proper soundstage just as a well designed conventional speaker will. They often excel however, in their polar dispersion.

3. Are they possibly better for small room due to the dipole pattern?

In my opinion yes. By nature they have a more diffuse, reverberant sound which will likely sound "right" as opposed to larger-than-life in a small room. If you listen to acoustic jazz for example, you can often picture the singer and other musicians in the room, in their proper position within the soundstage (both width and depth). 

4. How is their imaging precision? 

When done right, they are scary. They disappear more readily than most boxed speakers. You lose the L/R points of reference and gain an expansive stage.

5. If i want to try OB out on a budget, what commercial units are a good place to start?  I am quite curious about the OB sound indeed.

I have only heard a few versions of professionally built Linkwitz Orions by Audio Artistry, as well as a pair of Jamo 907's. Both nice but at a fairly high price point. As others have mentioned, you can get pretty good results through DIY. You can sometimes buy "flat packs" where the baffles of proven designs are already milled and ready for assembly. You can then order the drivers and have someone assemble them for you, or even better, take a stab at it yourself. The education you will receive will allow you to appreciate the hobby that much more. 

Hope this helps!

[JohnR]

I forgot to mention the Nao series: http://www.musicanddesign.com/products.html

[Boldlygo]

I recently bought a pair of Trio15B OB speakers at the Taves audio show in Toronto. They are simply awesome for the price. 
http://www.pureaudioproject.com

[OB_Newbie]

Hope everyone had a blessed Christmas season. 

OK, some newbie queries. 

The only dipole speakers I've heard are Martin Logans. I've never heard any open baffle cone based speakers.  However, I do love the ML sound.

So a few questions:

1. Why so few commercial open baffle speakers?

When looking at the circles at this moment, the boxed speakers circle has 12,534 posts with 694 topics while the open baffle circle has 20,373 posts with 1015 topics. So there is clearly no lack of interest with open baffle speakers.

Yet commercially, boxed speakers dominate in number of manufacturers and presumably units sold.

Why?

I'd love to be able to find some OB to hear but there is none in the retail stores in my are.

2. Do they give a larger soundstage, scale and depth - possibly giving a larger sense of scale for small rooms?

While I have never heard the coned OB speakers, my understanding is that OB gives a more spacious sound if they are moved out at least 3feet/1meter from the front wall.  If so, would these be better than boxed speakers for those who like a large spacious sound? 

3. Are they possibly better for small room due to the dipole pattern?

Since they are also supposed to have less room interaction due to the dipole pattern where less energy is directed at the side walls, perhaps that's another plus for a small room.  True or not?

4. How is their imaging precision? 

If they do give a larger sense of space and scale, do they also give accurate positioning of the instruments/performers or are they more diffiused in imaging precision?

Thanks again to all who have helped in answering to my myriads of queries in this circle.  I find that I get the most helpful responses in this forum compared to other forums so perhaps my queries are indeed rather 'newbie'ish.   

5. If i want to try OB out on a budget, what commercial units are a good place to start?  I am quite curious about the OB sound indeed.

You guys have been champs! 

Thanks,
UL

Where are you located roughly?  There might be some fellas on the forum that are reasonably close to you!?  If your in Wisconsin you are welcome to stop by and listen.

Regards,
Rich

[Tyson]

My take:

1. Why so few commercial open baffle speakers?
Because people are sheep.  Seriously.

2. Do they give a larger soundstage, scale and depth - possibly giving a larger sense of scale for small rooms?
Yes they do.  Depth is especially impressive compared to box speakers.

3. Are they possibly better for small room due to the dipole pattern?
Absolutely.  OB speakers are better in ANY room, IMO.  But they are especially well suited to smaller rooms or otherwise "problem" rooms because of their radiation patterns.

4. How is their imaging precision? 
As good as any box speaker out there.  It's a different presentation, so you have to get used to it, but once you do, there is no going back.

5. If i want to try OB out on a budget, what commercial units are a good place to start?  I am quite curious about the OB sound indeed.
Emerald Audio, Spatial Audio, Nao, Hawthorne - all make good finished OB speakers.  Nola and Legacy Audio make poor OB speakers and should be avoided.  For DIY or kits, GR Research is among the best, Linkwitz is right behind them, along with the Nao Note kits. 

[glynnw]

At this last RMAF, the only speakers I really liked were all open baffle.  I am using a Lowther in an OB configuration.  Last year I bought a small box speaker based upon internet talk.  Within 1 minute I knew I didn't like it - I could hear the box - sold it immediately.  There may be some uber expensive box speakers I could live with, but for the money, OB is by far my favorite type.  In particular you should try to hear the Spatial Audio M2 - less than $3K and 45 day in home trial (I have absolutely no commercial connection with them).  OB's will be more popular as time passes and more experience them.  Biggest negative is that they  sound best a few feet out from the wall, which is unacceptable to many a spouse.

[gregfisk]

I would also steer you toward GR Research as Danny has several proven designs and kits which get very good feedback from the people that own them. They are DIY designs but I believe Ruben of Out of the Woods or Ben can build you a flat pack and Ruben may be able to build you speakers complete as well. Take a look at some the projects which include a just finished pair of custom Super V's Ruben build for me under "Greg's Super V Pictures" down the page a bit, he does amazing work!

Good Luck with your search.

P.S. I agree with Tyson, many people are sheep.

[Early B.]

Let's face it -- OB speakers are often fairly large and less appealing aesthetically. For most people, these two issues are deal killers, especially if married and/or have small children, so they will not ikely be very popular options. Re-sale value is typically to be on the low side, as well, particularly DIY models.

In spite of these issues, I'm waiting for Danny to release a new wave of OB speakers.