[G E]

It's been a while since I have posted or started a new topic. At a Halloween block party I met a neighbor and learned he has also rediscovered vinyl.  He invited me over the following day to listen to his system. His new used VPI, mcintosh amplification driving Merlin speakers. No, I don't recollect the models.

I also noted he has a new VPI cyclone rcm.

My embarrassment of having brought over "dirty records" to play led me on a cusade to discover more about them.... RCMs, not dirty records.

I decided to build my own based on VPI technology. Many of the parts are in hand and I should be able to knock it out over the holiday break.

Interesting how the project has morphed from "cheap knock off" to taking the original to a higher plane.

I'll post pix of progress etc. .

[/mp]

My VPI 16.5 cleans records adequately but puts enough static on the record that the stylus accumulates a sizable dust bunny after playing half a side of the record. Zerostat helps a little but not enough. Never seen a cyclone in person except at Coney Island. Strongly suggest using materials which don't create static. 

Best luck,

[rob400]

I use a VPI 16.5 without any static problems! Not sure what's going on with your deck mp.

[threadkiller]

Oh Rob, you beat me to it!
I was gonna say, not sure what particular environment you're in, but the machine won't build up static.
Naturally this time of year, for many of us who heat our homes ( unlike those who lay around on pristine white beaches) the humidity factor plays a role.  Try the ol Fremer fix of spraying fabric softener on the floor in front of your players/cleaners... rugs and carpet only... Wouldn't want you to slide and crash your stylus- although your dealer may be quietly pleased....

What cleaning fluid are you using?  I've tried quite a few, and I still like the Audio Intelligent the best, from Osage Audio.  It might be your fluid. Btw, the VPI fluid is passable at best....

Cheers!

[rob400]

Good advise Chaz. I have only tried the VPI and Moth fluids. Prefer the VPI of the two. Audio Intelligent fluid much like Line Magnetic equipment is sadly unavailable in "the old country"  and as you well know my WT (unlike yours truly) resides all year round in the very cold UK 

[SteveFord]

After the RCM treatment I give the albums a swipe with a damp DiscWasher brush which helps keep the dust from being attracted to the album.

[threadkiller]

Hugh,
I'll send you some when you get back...to that cold cold clime...let me know.

[/mp]

What cleaning fluid are you using?

Used the VPI stuff that came with it while it lasted. Distilled water with a drop of Photoflow since.

Merry Christmas iff applicable; happy days off if not.

[G E]

OK, more and more of the parts are arriving as I work through the design of this thing in my mind.  It's taking a while... lots of data out there and not all of it is correct.  It takes a while to parse it.

My idea is kind of an over the top but bare bones version of the Typhoon.  I decided against automatic application of fluids.  Adds lots of complexity unless the goal is to make it very easy to clean records for archivists and librarians rather than half crazed hobbyists.  I count myself among the latter group.  If you are reading this you are in my Venn diagram circle.

So here are some pics of the bits and pieces to date:

Ametek Lamb 116757-13 vacuum - no pic as I just ordered it.  This allegedly is the vacuum motor used in the VPI Typhoon.  I got a good deal so it made sense to go this route rather than external dry/wet vac.  I am toying with the idea of an external capture vessel but keeping the vacuum internal, just had a new idea and need to work through it.  Stay tuned....

Gearmotor - Dayton branded but Merkle-Korff designed/built, model 1LNG8.  I wasted lots of time looking for appropriately spec'd AC gearmotors until I got smart and considered DC.  This one is 12 RPM, 12V DC with 40 LB/Inch torque and 40 LB overhung load.  It's a monster  compared with the AC gearmotors mentioned most frequently in the forums (e.g. - 13 LB/In, 3.5 LB overhung load for the Dayton 3M153).  You can learn more about gearmotor basics here: http://www.motioncontrolonline.org/files/public/Gearmotor_Basics.pdf

I may use my DIY Well Tempered power supply for powering the platter motor (still need 120V AC for vacuum).  Or look for external dc supply at GW, etc.


 

I decided to get the spindle, bracket and rubber mounts from VPI.  Just seemed wise.  Turns out I will not need the bracket and rubber mounts.  Anyone want to buy them?
A 3/16" inch ball bearing on top of the gearmotor shaft provides just the right clearance for the spindle-platter assembly over the aluminum deck.  [not pictured]








MDF has been problematic with VPI 16/16.5's and some of the earlier premium models.  I decided to build the basic box of 3/4 inch birch faced plywood and it will be liberally coated with the appropriate varnish.  The Typhoon is made of metal but I don't have the tools to work up a metal case.  Metalwork products have escalated in cost the last few years.  I wonder if a metal toolbox would work?





The deck was a poser for quite a while, but I went with half inch thick aluminum plate.  It seemed like a good idea at the time, but today I couldn't tell you why.  A local metal distributor cut a small piece at a price competitive with what I saw online.  Once I decided to go with the plate, the bracket and mounts became unnecessary.  But then I had to figure out how to mount the gearmotor with the spindle attached.  The solution was to cut a 2.5 inch hole that allows the spindle to pass through and then move laterally to the correct position.  Mounting holes were calculated and laid out to put the spindle at the right position.

So, I need to drill another hole for the vacuum tower, its placement being critical.  A drill press would be nice but it would need to be a biggie to accommodate the dimensions of the deck plate.  I did ok with the first hole with a beefy hand drill, paying close attention to the bubble level to keep things as plumb as possible.  This is the first time I have worked with this thickness of metal plate.  It came out OK in the end... so far.... You can see the 2.5 inch hole saw used.

Not sure how I will finish it.  Painting aluminum requires several rigorous steps.  I may just polish it up til it shines like a mirror!





And here are a few more items, acrylic platter, disc clamp and VPI upgrade kit.  I got the platter online and the other things from Elusive Disc along with some disc doctor cleaning pads and liquid.




Lots of problem solving in this project, shoot, I can't even take for granted the fasteners used on the aluminum plate.  There exists the opportunity for nasty corrosion between disparate metals in the event of chronic moisture, sea air and/or industrial pollutants.  Luckily I only have to be concerned with very localized liquid and I have sorted out how to address this problem.

Stay tuned, updates offered as I progress.

[rob400]

We all wait with bated breath 

[threadkiller]

It could turn out a masterpiece... or, meh. That's the issue with diy...

All I know is, I've experienced most of the major cleaners. I sold my VPI 16.5 after hearing what a Keith Monks and the new KLAudio ultrasonic can do.  Game changers.  And the extra bonus beauty of the ultrasonic is it only uses distilled water...

Rob, those rum coolers on the beach must be nice...

[rob400]

Indeed Charlie, on all counts. Hope this project works for G E. I remember an old dealer of mine owning a Keith Monks cleaner back in 90's. He used to charge $2 per LP clean. The Monks machines weren't made for a number of years but are back in production again at a mere 3000 GBP which is close to $5k. I buy a lot of albums S/H from record fairs, Discogs etc so for those similar with a valuable cartridge a record cleaning machine is a must buy IMO.

[G E]

I did look into the Monks machines and saw some of the DIY efforts. Some were elegantly executed.

In the end I decided to go the VPI knockoff route because I felt I had a better chance for success for tooling the pickup mechanism... after all, I am literally using the vpi pick up wand.

[threadkiller]

G.e.- makes sense... My only caveat was that you go to all that trouble and still end up with a subpar cleaner.
Although, I've seen some diy's that at least got the dirt off. One guy incorporated a steamer into his cleaner even. So if you like to play around, I'm still saying go for it.
I'm still entranced by the two I mentioned in that they did things to the vinyl that the others couldn't even come close to. It's like three layers of veils were dropped between you and the music. And the big plus with the KLAudio is the no expense distilled water. The $4k price tag ultimately seems worth it for musical doings and ease of use. I bought one!
Good luck! Report back what happens...

Rob, maybe I'll start charging my friends... at least get some beer money out of it...

[TimF]

Charlie-Only three veils lifted?    This will be fun to see, if a person is industrious and can come up with all the pieces, might be well worth the effort!

Rob-just a quick one, had sent you an e-mail a couple weeks ago, hope all is well. I sent a message to Mike Pranka regarding getting a chance to listen to the DV amps once my new year settles in, will see. Okay, back to the RCM build.....

[G E]

Make it seven veils and I'll do it!

For those of you old enough to remember the original Avengers televisions series, an episode called "Honey for the Prince" featured Diana Rigg performing the 7 Veils dance.  Unforgettable!

[threadkiller]

I remember! We loved the Avengers...

It's weird about the veil lifting... With the Monks, it doesn't seem for every record.
I haven't had the KL long enough... the ones I have cleaned, new or grungy, left the music standing out in great relief... like the first time we heard the Amadeus. 
So stay tuned..
I do again agree with Rob, when you're really invested in records and a quality rig and cartridge, a top notch cleaner is a must. Even most of my friends scoff a bit. Slackers...

[rob400]

Rob-just a quick one, had sent you an e-mail a couple weeks ago, hope all is well. I sent a message to Mike Pranka regarding getting a chance to listen to the DV amps once my new year settles in, will see. Okay, back to the RCM build.....

Hi Tim. Not sure if the new amps are out yet. Dynavector amplifiers historically have been stop start with production. Very frustrating! I fly back to the UK shortly and am looking to invest in my UK system so I hope you decide to keep the Obelisks and get them sounding as you want. I can't get my head around the imaging problem you are experiencing. Maybe Mike or Charlie can help you more. Best for 2015.

[TimF]

Thanks Rob, I am going to make the Obs more of a priority this year, I know that sounds odd, but it has been a tough year for me in so many ways, has been hard to just relax and let the music come. But I do maybe look forward to getting a demo of the Dynavector amps in my setup here at home, I want to hear how much of a difference they can bring over my Plinius, if that all works out, and then go from there.

I also have a bit more up my sleeve and may be looking at a WT Amadeus/Dynavector cartridge and just use my Plinius integrated/phono stage until I can go further with things. But I feel the Obs aren't going anywhere really.

Okay, didn't mean to slightly get off topic here...on to the RCM build! Oh, and Happy New Year to all!!!

[rob400]

I'd go for the Amadeus/DV before the amps Tim. I'd be interested to read Charlie's opinion regarding this as he get's to hear all the different permutations. But garbage in garbage out surely still applies and your Plinius must drive your Shahinian Obelisks 2 ok. If I remember correctly your only source is a Naim UniLite?? The Amadeus is one of the Hifi worlds bargains and can outperform ANY steamer according to my ears so it's a no brainer IMO....