Top Violinist Fail to Identify Stradivarius

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FullRangeMan

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Top Violinist Fail to Identify Stradivarius
« on: 7 Dec 2014, 11:50 am »
Top violinists failed twice in blind tests to identify old instruments as Stradivarius and other ancient instruments in a hotel room and in a concerto hall.
http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2014/04/elite-violinists-fail-distinguish-legendary-violins-modern-fiddles
Well, if a top musician that plays many hours every day since his childhood in a violin, can not identify a new and a older instrument, how Hi-Fi Gurus from audio magazines can identify a cable diference??

steve f

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Re: Top Violinist Fail to Identify Stradivarius
« Reply #1 on: 7 Dec 2014, 12:20 pm »
They can't.

Once set up a test with two identical pairs of interconnects. The only difference was the color. We did this to eliminate the predudice against double blind testing. After about an hour of testing the group devided into two factions. Objective people who didn't hear any difference, and a group who decided that green was better than blue. This second group described all kinds of details in minute details.

Not wanting to embarrass anyone, we thanked all of them, and told them they had influenced a design decision.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Top Violinist Fail to Identify Stradivarius
« Reply #2 on: 7 Dec 2014, 01:17 pm »
They can't.

Once set up a test with two identical pairs of interconnects. The only difference was the color. We did this to eliminate the predudice against double blind testing. After about an hour of testing the group devided into two factions. Objective people who didn't hear any difference, and a group who decided that green was better than blue. This second group described all kinds of details in minute details.

Not wanting to embarrass anyone, we thanked all of them, and told them they had influenced a design decision.
I also suspect they cant identify any sound difference between a $100 and a $10K cable.

Photon46

Re: Top Violinist Fail to Identify Stradivarius
« Reply #3 on: 7 Dec 2014, 04:12 pm »
Before others jump in and participate in another round of nonsensical debate over subjective vs. objective aesthetic judgments, take the time to actually read this account (written by one of the violinist who actually participated and played the instruments) of what REALLY happened in the  test FullRangeMan refers too. I think her account vividly illustrates that these blind tests are fraught with problems and why their "objective" results should be interpreted with skepticism. www.violinist.com/blog/laurie/20121/13039/ The widely reported results of this test are a great example of how journalists looking for sensationalist sound bites dumb down data interpretation and turn a nuanced situation into a misrepresentation of the facts.

firedog

Re: Top Violinist Fail to Identify Stradivarius
« Reply #4 on: 7 Dec 2014, 04:22 pm »
As usual, the headline distorts actual meaning.

Note this sentence in article:
Quote
The consistency of results from session to session showed that soloists could definitely distinguish one violin from another.

So what the test showed was not that they couldn't distinguish the instruments one from another, but that in a blind test they didn't necessarily prefer the old instruments and didn't know which instrument was old/new.

In other words, if the test was valid, it shows they can tell instruments apart; but that preference for a particular instrument may be strongly influenced by "brand".  Not the same as what some are trying to take the test to mean - that differences between instruments can't be heard.

I think it may very well be true that modern instruments sound better than the old Italian ones, but more testing would need to be done to back up this study. I even read about some professionals using a modern Japanese violin made of graphite resins, and they claim it is the best sounding instrument around, for a fraction of the cost of some of those 7 figure babies.

BTW, I've corresponded thru a forum with a professional violinist who wrote that picking a violin is very difficult. What the violinist hears when playing it is totally different than what the audience hears. He said his violin doesn't sound that good to him on stage, but very good to him when he hears it sitting in the audience, or when a recording is played back to him and he is listening as an audience would.

edit: the link above gives some perspective on why the test may not be what it is being made out to be, and why the methodology may have been flawed - at least as far as determining whether violinists actually prefer the sound of an old Italian violin.