Newbie Getting RM40's - some ?'s

Q_surf · « **on:** 13 Sep 2004, 02:11 pm »

Just purchased a used 2002 pair on Audiogon, due to arrive this Friday. Already have my chiropractor visit scheduled for Saturday after the move-in.

To say that I'm excited is a giant understatement. The lamb's wool and elmers are already waiting...

Just sold my beloved M.L. CLS panels and Legacy Sub to make the wifey slightly "less cranky" about my getting these beasts. Even had to promise to play some Madonna for her the first night.

I feel reasonably solid about my upstream components/cabling not tethering down the sound with only one possible exception being that I will be biamping the RM40's with my:

Adcom 5800 (250w x 2 into 8ohms)
Adcom 555 mkII (200w x 2 into 8ohms)

I know, I know, I should plunk down another several thousand on an Ampzilla... But the reality is that I've already overdrawn my WAF account so that ain't happening anytime soon.

So, my questions:
1. have any of you played the RM40's through an Adcom or equivalent?
2. and if so, it "sounded like..."?
3. should I put the better/bigger 5800 on the bass or hi-freq assignment?
4. I've read about the various tweaks/m/positioning/pot's/and putty considerations around here but haven't seen a more comprehensive "how to" guide to setting up the RM40's. Is there one available?

Thanks in advance for any help!

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 02:36 pm »

My first shot would be to put the 5800 on bass and the 555 on mids/treble. I've heard the 555 is not a bad amp at all. This should get you by. I would look up the input sensitivities of the two amps, in their manuals or ask tech support. This should help you figure out how best to match the levels between the two amps.

But first, before trying to biamp, I HIGHLY recommend you listen to the RM40's for a month at least with a single amp to accostom yourself to their sound. This should greatly help you understand the appropriate levels needed for the right balance when you go to biamp.

Q_surf · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 02:54 pm »

Your single amp initiation advice is a great idea. Occam's razor in practice.

Adcom amps: The hifi audio circles are a persnickety bunch (takes one to know one) . Both of these Adcom amps were once touted as unbelievable B rated "giant killers". But now I see the same reviewers and hifi society at large have moved onto new darlings. Watch, by 2005, the RM40's will be "so last year." Sigh...

shokunin · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 05:06 pm »

What Josh said is great advice. Running in a single amp mode will help do the critical adjustments to the putty and pots (in that order) in order to get the sound to your liking. Introducing bi-amping without adjusting or at least getting familiar with those adjustments may lead to frustration.

woodsyi · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 06:59 pm »

I tested Adcom GFA 555 II on RM 40 earlier this year. It did a credible job, but RM 40 can do better. The really difficult part about RM 40 is that it take a lot of power to drive the woofers cleanly. Those magnets can really soak up juice. I am triamping with external x-over and tested the woofers between various frequencies rangings up to 700 Hz isolated on Crown K2, CJ FM200, Innersound ESL II, Adcom GFA 555 II and ARC VT 100. Adcom 555 II came in the middle of this pack for driving the woofers. It also came in the middle of the pack for the ribbons. Driving full range, it was second to last. My conclusion is that Adcom 555 II is competant and does a credible job. It may even give the most bang for the buck at <$400, but you have to ask yourself why bother with RM40 if competancy is all you are looking for in a pair of speakers. I can't say anything about 5800 as I havn't heard it. FYI, I heard better sound with CJ FM200 which is similar to 555 II in power, price(in the used market)
and age.

Q_surf · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 08:41 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

I tested Adcom GFA 555 II on RM 40 earlier this year. It did a credible job, but RM 40 can do better. The really difficult part about RM 40 is that it take a lot of power to drive the woofers cleanly. Those magnets can really soak up juice. I am triamping with external x-over and tested the woofers between various frequencies rangings up to 700 Hz isolated on Crown K2, CJ FM200, Innersound ESL II, Adcom GFA 555 II and ARC VT 100. Adcom 555 II came in the middle of this pack for driving the woofers. It ...

The 555 MkII was a ~$800 amp new. The 5800 was intro'd years later at something around $1400 I believe. It is a significant step above the more midfi-value oriented 555 - so based on your evaluation, I am expecting that it would have perhaps finished higher in your evaluation and could much more effectively drive them as a single amp.

But of course you are spot on about the RM40's being in a completely different league than my amps (that's why I asked this question). A system can play only to the level of its weakest link. I bought these n nearly unrivaled speakers for that exact reason and will be endeavoring to feed them all 4 food groups that they crave sometime in the future (when wifey cools down!

)

Do you know of a good RM40 step-by-step setup procedure I could download???

Thank you,
Quint

jgubman · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 09:30 pm »

Pretty good info at:
http://www.vmpsaudio.com/htt2.htm

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 10:08 pm »

Quote from: Q_surf

The 555 MkII was a ~$800 amp new. The 5800 was intro'd years later at something around $1400 I believe. It is a significant step above the more midfi-value oriented 555 - so based on your evaluation, I am expecting that it would have perhaps finished higher in your evaluation and could much more effectively drive them as a single amp.

But of course you are spot on about the RM40's being in a completely different league than my amps (that's why I asked this question). A system can play only to the leve ...

Quint,

As others have stated, run a single amp first (I would go with the 5800 - I had a GFA 555 MK II and it is good for bass duties but not much else - especially on the very revealing midrange panels).

Another option is to sell both Adcom amps and pickup something used like a Sunfire or Odyssey. Another option is a pro amp like a QSC or Crown. Any of these should outperform the Adcom products until you can make a big jump up.

George

Q_surf · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 11:46 pm »

Quote from: jgubman

Pretty good info at:
http://www.vmpsaudio.com/htt2.htm

Danke!

Q_surf · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 11:49 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Quint,

As others have stated, run a single amp first (I would go with the 5800 - I had a GFA 555 MK II and it is good for bass duties but not much else - especially on the very revealing midrange panels).

Another option is to sell both Adcom amps and pickup something used like a Sunfire or Odyssey. Another option is a pro amp like a QSC or Crown. Any of these should outperform the Adcom products until you can make a big jump up.

George

Thanks for that. I just went on a cyberjourney looking into Sunfire and Odyssey spec's and pricing. Things that make you go hmmm....

woodsyi · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Sep 2004, 01:27 am »

Quint,

I don't know how far San Pablo is from Santa Cruz, but you can pick up your RM 40s, drive them straight over to Big B and get the cabinet upgrade and what ever else upgrade you want on your 2002 version, which would include the glue and lambs wool. Just a thought. I live in Virginia and still sent the drivers back to get the cabinet upgrade as well as FST and wiring upgrade. I think it's a great deal even with shipping cost and a surcharge for the unreturned cabinet.

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Sep 2004, 01:32 am »

Quote from: woodsyi

Quint,

I don't know how far San Pablo is from Santa Cruz, but you can pick up your RM 40s, drive them straight over to Big B and get the cabinet upgrade and what ever else upgrade you want on your 2002 version, which would include the glue and lambs wool. Just a thought. I live in Virginia and still sent the drivers back to get the cabinet upgrade as well as FST and wiring upgrade. I think it's a great deal even with shipping cost and a surcharge for the unreturned cabinet.

Woodsyi,

Just curious, what did you do with the driverless cabinets?

George

woodsyi · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Sep 2004, 01:51 am »

George,

They are just sitting there in the basement until I have to move them to make room for the Ebony ones. They are darned heavy even without any innards. I have been mulling over buying 2 pairs of woofers and a pair of radiators from Madisound and making a pair of "the Taller" subwoofer when I move into a bigger place.

zybar · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Sep 2004, 01:52 am »

Let us know when you get your Ebony's.

Big B just let me know that my Ebony's shipped today!

George

woodsyi · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Sep 2004, 02:01 am »

Will do. Brian says they should be done with the upgrade by the end of the week. Mine won't be brand spanking new like yours, but I did not want the hassle of having to sell my old ones. I sure hope mine will sound like they are new

.

Q_surf · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Sep 2004, 08:06 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Quint,

I don't know how far San Pablo is from Santa Cruz, but you can pick up your RM 40s, drive them straight over to Big B and get the cabinet upgrade and what ever else upgrade you want on your 2002 version, which would include the glue and lambs wool. Just a thought. I live in Virginia and still sent the drivers back to get the cabinet upgrade as well as FST and wiring upgrade. I think it's a great deal even with shipping cost and a surcharge for the unreturned cabinet.

I have read the threads about upgrading the tweet's and cap's but haven't seen any discussion on the cabinet upgrades - insofar as sonics go. Sorry for my naivete but can you please nut-shell the effects from the cabinet upgrade for me? Is it mainly for cosmetics? How much for the new cabinets? Aren't the 'old' cabinets very seriously damped and braced?

Thanks for any help/advice!
Quint

woodsyi · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Sep 2004, 09:00 pm »

Quint,

There was a long thread about bracing the old cabinets with window brace and/or wooden dowels. MLS cabinets are supposed to be firmer and heavier with better sound. Upgrade is $400. I don't know what associated cost will be for pickup/shipping. FST upgrade requires wood work and Brian strongly suggested cabinet upgrade for that purpose.

Q_surf · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Sep 2004, 09:23 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Quint,

There was a long thread about bracing the old cabinets with window brace and/or wooden dowels. MLS cabinets are supposed to be firmer and heavier with better sound. Upgrade is $400. I don't know what associated cost will be for pickup/shipping. FST upgrade requires wood work and Brian strongly suggested cabinet upgrade for that purpose.

Interesting, but at 250lbs each, I'm guessing they aren't terribly "ringy" with the old cab's. I'm going to kick back and enjoy them as-is for a while before thinking about sending them off. But I like what I've read about the simple wool and glue DIY's.

Cheers

Stimpy · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 06:37 pm »

woodsyi wrote:

Quote from: woodsyi

Quint,

They are just sitting there in the basement until I have to move them to make room for the Ebony ones. They are darned heavy even without any innards. I have been mulling over buying 2 pairs of woofers and a pair of radiators from Madisound and making a pair of "the Taller" subwoofer when I move into a bigger place.

If I wouldn't be afraid of Big B tracking me down, and physically hurting me; I'd offer to buy your RM 40 cabinets, and try my hand at a DIY design.

(I'm just south of you, near Charlottesville). But, since Brian "frowns" upon his designs being offered to the DIY crowd (which I fully respect), I won't mention it...

Stimpy

Juan R · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2004, 01:33 pm »

I think you can buy the kit without the cabinets from VMPS,