[DEP14]

While there are others more qualified, I'm guessing I'm one of a few to have some time with the Soundscape 8's and the Exotica 3 in a listening room setting.  I had the pleasure of spending about 90 minutes listening to BRM's at his house Friday.  I happen to own his old SS8's so... here we go.

It goes without saying that both are fantastic speakers that while pricey, shame other speakers costing 2x as much.  I'm serious about that also.  Not some cliche to make you feel better about spending this much or "going against the grain" of buying a bigger name.  But most of you here know that.

The soundscape is a fast, artciulate, detailed, and dynamic loudspeaker.  It does everything that I am looking for in spades.  I'll admit though I actually like some of the things that klipsch does also.  I like a snare drum to SNAP, and I like a midrange guitar to sound big, crunchy, and a bit forward.  Klipsch higher end offerings do that but the price you pay is SCREAMING and way too forward cymbals, and the price you pay for dynamics are speakers that do very poorly at putting out tight, and low bass.  I had the Klipsch Palladium P37's, so I'm not talking the lower end stuff. (people hate to hear it, but the Palladiums do a fair amount pretty darn well, but they are 8k a pair also)

The SS8, has 90-95% of that snap and crunch while being just a shade less forward, and with more detail, less harshness, but are very dynamic, fast, quick, and sound BIG.  They play low and tight.  The imaging is spectacular both left to right, and from front to back.  Every instrument is where it should be in 3D space (I will come back to this later).  The presentation is big, open, and accurate.  I think they are incredibly fun.  They also can be pretty critical of the equipment feeding them.  If you have a bright sounding pre-pro, then you are going to get a bit of a bright sounding presentation (I found this out, liked my Marantz AV8801, but going to a Classe SSP 800 put these speakers exactly where I wanted them).

Awesome speakers for rock (even metal), blues, jazz and very good at everything else. They put out deep accurate bass that is awesome (but having juice here helps...).

Now the E3.  Also spectacular but I will get to the meat of it.  They are more "organic" sounding (hoping that makes sense).  While the SS8's have a bit more "attack".  The midrange on the E3 is just as accurate, and I hesitate to say soft, which is why I use the term organic.  What is very special about them, and I tried to articulate this to BRM is that while the SS8 presents a 3d soundstage, the E3 takes it a step further and the instruments themselves sound 3 dimensional.  Not only is everything where it should be on the stage, but you can actually picture a 3d hologram of the instrument itself in space.  I noticed this on several tracks.  The bass of course with those twin powered 8's is deep, tight and even fuller than the SS8's (which makes sense... they are powered!).  Female vocals were just tremendous and classical music was spot on.  I did feel while listening to a bit of rock tracks on them they were too laid back and not quite as attacking sounding as I think most rock guys are looking for.  Don't get me wrong, very, very good, but the SS8 midrange is a better match for those that like crunching, distorted rock guitars and drums that attack.

I may add to this as I think of more. But I will also say this.  I think the SS8 is the better all around speaker - that is, if you listen to a huge variety of music from Rock to Female Vocals, classical, acoustic, and jazz the SS8 does everything really good to great and IMO does rock and blues spectacular.  I hate to compare to other MFG's but it's more on the Wilson end of the spectrum.  A year or so ago I demo'd some Watt Puppy's and thought that was the sound I was after (but not at that cost).

The E3 however, if you listen to the Classical, Female Vocals, and other more audiophile music is SPECTACULAR. It does certain things better than the SS8, as well as differently.  I think it competes with the Vienna Acoustics Klimt series "the music" which is a 27k speaker system I demo'd a while back for kicks. 

Again, I hate to compare to other MFG's, but it's a frame of reference for me.  I really think Jim is putting out product that competes with systems costing 2x as much. 

The almost hologram like presentation of instruments on the E3 was one of the coolest things I've ever heard a speaker do.  The twin powered 8's were awesome. (believe me, had me thinking that if I did 2 channel only, and didn't have subs... what if Jim could mate the accuton and raal of the SS8 with the bottom end of the E3?)

Again both are awesome, and BRM's builds are just an overflow of craftsmanship.

But as one who has had upgraditis issues I would caution someone from ditching SS8's to get the Exotica's because they are a more expensive model.  Think carefully about your listening habits before doing so.  If you listen to classical, female vocals, and a lot of what I consider audiophile type recordings you will be rewarded and likely easily justify the expense.

If you are like me and happiness is a dark beer, some Rush, Zeppelin, Stevie Ray Vaughn etc... and you have the SS8's and want to spend some money.  Upgrade your front end with that money burning a hole.  You have IMO one of the best 3 speakers under 20k for what you listen to already.

- Doug

[Tomy2Tone]

Excellent write up Doug! The best comparison I've read thus far on the two speakers.

[sfox7076]

Well, and I am not discounting your comments, but I think the comments you make contradict my own experiences.  I have spent some time with Watt Puppy's in my house.  I now have the E3s.  To me, the real difference is that when I listened to them, verses the Exotica 3s, I knew that I was listening to a recording.  The E3s make me want to close my eyes because basically they take me into the recording as if I am there.  Happened this morning listening to Zeppelin III. This goes for any type of music I have listened to.  Cannot comment on ss8s because I have never had them in my house, but Watt Puppies didn't do it for me.

[mr_bill]

A couple of questions:
MFG stands for.......
You like your SS8s better than the Palladiums you used to have?

Great comments btw, thank you,

[mr_bill]

Well, and I am not discounting your comments, but I think the comments you make contradict my own experiences.  I have spent some time with Watt Puppy's in my house.  I now have the E3s.  To me, the real difference is that when I listened to them, verses the Exotica 3s, I knew that I was listening to a recording.  The E3s make me want to close my eyes because basically they take me into the recording as if I am there.  Happened this morning listening to Zeppelin III. This goes for any type of music I have listened to.  Cannot comment on ss8s because I have never had them in my house, but Watt Puppies didn't do it for me.

Which Wilsons did you have?

[DEP14]

Well, and I am not discounting your comments, but I think the comments you make contradict my own experiences.  I have spent some time with Watt Puppy's in my house.  I now have the E3s.  To me, the real difference is that when I listened to them, verses the Exotica 3s, I knew that I was listening to a recording.  The E3s make me want to close my eyes because basically they take me into the recording as if I am there.  Happened this morning listening to Zeppelin III. This goes for any type of music I have listened to.  Cannot comment on ss8s because I have never had them in my house, but Watt Puppies didn't do it for me.

No worries, I'm not totally tied to the Watt Puppy analogy on the SS8 as I've only demo'd those at a dealer. 

That said, if I were to pick a Zeppelin Album that would sound particularly good on the E3's, Zeppelin III would be the album.   

I do totally understand you saying with the E3 you are there.  That makes a lot of sense to me.  That is what I think I was trying to convey by saying you can see the instruments themselves in 3d.  Makes total sense.

Hell of a speaker.

[DEP14]

A couple of questions:
MFG stands for.......
You like your SS8s better than the Palladiums you used to have?

Great comments btw, thank you,

Manufacturer.

As far as the SS8 vs the Palladium.  Yes, it's no contest for me.

I had two issues with the Palladiums.

1.  Once I went past 85 db's (and yes I listen loud a fair amount), I felt that the cymbals just came way too forward for me and stood out from the rest of the music.

2.  For a speaker that big, they just didn't play low or have any slam.

But I will say that I did like the Palladiums better than many speakers, and did not get to hear them with the electronics that I have now.  People are shocked when I tell them that the Palladiums really do not have any horn honkiness and have a very clean midrange IMO.  I do think they are extremely particular of electronics.  I wouldn't mind hearing them again now that I have a classe Pre-Pro on the front end as that may have helped, but I think they would have been best served with something like McIntosh on the front end.  That may have toned them down enough for me.

I think it's actually a good speaker, but I think the SS8's are much more well rounded, while still being 85%-90% as dynamic.

The guy who bought my Palladiums happened to be a drummer and the first thing he said to me when he demo'd them here was he loved how well you could hear the drums and cymbals.  That told me I wasn't crazy for thinking that.

When I first listened to the Palladiums and SS8's I felt the SS8's were too laid back.  But when you get things in your own listening environment you really learn.  Such a huge difference.

[kingdeezie]

Well, and I am not discounting your comments, but I think the comments you make contradict my own experiences.  I have spent some time with Watt Puppy's in my house.  I now have the E3s.  To me, the real difference is that when I listened to them, verses the Exotica 3s, I knew that I was listening to a recording.  The E3s make me want to close my eyes because basically they take me into the recording as if I am there.  Happened this morning listening to Zeppelin III. This goes for any type of music I have listened to.  Cannot comment on ss8s because I have never had them in my house, but Watt Puppies didn't do it for me.

This is an excellent post.

Like I stated in another thread, I don't think its possible to label a speakers sound based on musical genres. I think what is important is the flavor of the speaker, and what the listener is looking for.

Some people want their rock and blues recordings to have "snap" and "bite." There is nothing wrong with that.

Other people might want their rock and blues recordings to have "tone" and "texture." There is nothing wrong with that.

To paraphrase was ctviggen said in the other thread, I'll also say the comparison here is not apples to apples at all either.

DEP is using a solid state HT processor, BRM is using a tube preamp for starters. What were the source differences? What were the amplifier differences? Was there any similarity between either set up?

These are high resolution, high quality speakers, and the electronics that come before them are significant in their final presentation. It would seem obvious to me that DEP and BRM have different musical and sound tastes, since their setups seem so completely different. There is nothing to say that either one of these speakers attributes can't be tweaked in either direction with reapplication of components.

I think if anyone is sitting on 12K, and wants to purchase either of these two speakers, they are going to have to demo them at Salk's shop to get any clear idea of what they sound like when set up optimally, and powered by the same electronics.

 

.

[kingdeezie]

When I first listened to the Palladiums and SS8's I felt the SS8's were too laid back.  But when you get things in your own listening environment you really learn.  Such a huge difference.

YES! 

[DEP14]

This is an excellent post.

Like I stated in another thread, I don't think its possible to label a speakers sound based on musical genres. I think what is important is the flavor of the speaker, and what the listener is looking for.

Some people want their rock and blues recordings to have "snap" and "bite." There is nothing wrong with that.

Other people might want their rock and blues recordings to have "tone" and "texture." There is nothing wrong with that.

To paraphrase was ctviggen said in the other thread, I'll also say the comparison here is not apples to apples at all either.

DEP is using a solid state HT processor, BRM is using a tube preamp for starters. What were the source differences? What were the amplifier differences? Was there any similarity between either set up?

These are high resolution, high quality speakers, and the electronics that come before them are significant in their final presentation. It would seem obvious to me that DEP and BRM have different musical and sound tastes, since their setups seem so completely different. There is nothing to say that either one of these speakers attributes can't be tweaked in either direction with reapplication of components.

I think if anyone is sitting on 12K, and wants to purchase either of these two speakers, they are going to have to demo them at Salk's shop to get any clear idea of what they sound like when set up optimally, and powered by the same electronics.

 

.

I don't disagree with anything you say here at all. BRM will eventually chime in I suspect as he has heard both with the same pre-pro.  I think he feels similarly to what I do regarding what the speakers differences are.  While I don't think that speakers are Genre dependent, I do think that speakers may sound better to people for different genre's.

If I had more of BRM's musical tastes I would prefer the E3 though and totally get why he made the move.  For my musical tastes, the SS8 really does the trick for me... I've yet to hear a speaker I like better sub 20k (and maybe more) for what I listen to, and that's a good thing for me as I'm all out of budget for a long ass while! 

[fsimms]

DEP14, thanks for the interesting comments.  I haven't heard the SS8s or the E3s, but I have the SS10s.  My guess as to what the impression that I might get if I had the opportunity to be at your auditions is that the SS8 is like a snort of cocaine and the E3 is like a glass of Bordeaux.   I say that because vinyl records on my SS10s are so thrilling to listen to at reference level. Choosing one over the other would depend on what one is looking for.  Does that analogy sound too far off?

Bob

PS Just guessing about the cocaine effects. 

[Rocket]

Hi,

While I've never heard either SS8 and Exotica speakers I do have a pair of HT3's and previously had a pair of Salk Sound HT2's.  In reference to upstream electronics they make a difference.  I'm currently using Ampzilla 2000 second edition amps (rated 300 watts@8ohms) and recently replaced my N.E.W P3 preamplifier with a Red Wine Audio Isabella preamplifier.  This has been a quite an improvement in my system and I was surprised that changing preamps would have such an improvement.

It seems like with these Salk Sound speakers that they really step up with every improvement that you make.  I'm the type of person who likes a totally neutral sound presentation and I listen to all types of music except for classical music.  I'm also a musician and I've heard a lot of live music as well.  This is a great thread but I'm definitely upgrading my speakers and shipping them to Australia yet again.

Cheers Rod

[JonnyFive]

Doug, thanks for those listening thoughts.  I agree with not considering the E3 an upgrade over the SS8.  The costs of the mid/tweeter driver complement is similar, the XO in the E3 has fewer components than that in the SS8.  So the majority of the extra cost is going towards the bass section and the slightly taller cabinet.  In considering the switch, the bass section was never a deciding factor for me, as I absolutely love the bass on the SS8s.  I don't think I could ever go back to a ported bass section again!

Jon

[Tomy2Tone]

With the comments about components playing a role in how a speaker is perceived or adjusted to taste, just curious to know from some of you more experienced people unlike myself...can you drastically change the overall sonic signature sound of a speaker just by carefully selecting the components in the chain?

In other words can you make an SS8 sound just like an E3 or vice versa? I've always been of the understanding a speaker's design and its drivers will give a particular presentation and that through components and cabling it can be tweaked to taste but only to a certain limit.

[DEP14]

With the comments about components playing a role in how a speaker is perceived or adjusted to taste, just curious to know from some of you more experienced people unlike myself...can you drastically change the overall sonic signature sound of a speaker just by carefully selecting the components in the chain?

In other words can you make an SS8 sound just like an E3 or vice versa? I've always been of the understanding a speaker's design and its drivers will give a particular presentation and that through components and cabling it can be tweaked to taste but only to a certain limit.

No.  I think you can tweak the overall character with components, but assuming you have the power to drive them I still say speakers are 80% of the equation, and I've learned the source is 15% (assuming a decent room... now if you have major room issues I throw it all out the window).

[fsimms]

You can make very dramatic differences in the sound with other equipment.  As DEP14 says the speakers are the most critical component in the character. Once the sound is modified then it is hard to remove that modification.  Paper cones have there own characteristic sound and ceramic cones have another.  I like the modifications to the sound that vinyl and tubes make so that is what I use.

Bob

[Austin08]

IMO, equipments can not change how the speakers sound 100% but can extend or reduce sound characteristic of the speakers in certain area. IMO, many ppl when audition speaker tend to focus too much on how "the whole system" sound. Comments like midrange "too hot", lack of soundstage, lack of bass.... But most forget that is the sound of the whole sum and owner reference. When I audition I tend to do it like Dep14. I am much focus on what the speaker can or can not do. It does not really matter warm, cold or forward..... But it would be a matter of how it behave with my listening habbit and reference listening material. Just my 2cts.

[Tomy2Tone]

Thanks DEP14 for letting me ask that question. I don't want to intrude on you're thread but was just curious when people say components and the room can really change what you may have initially thought a particular speaker to sound like.

I remember BRM saying in another thread in regards to his E3's that now they are in his room with the components he has chosen to use that they sound ten times better than they did at RMAF and yet when you visited and heard them they still seem to be in favor of classical/ acoustic type music vs a more rock and blues type speaker.  Which I've now read numerous times from others to be the same case, even BRM himself.

I guess I was thinking once the E3's were in somebody's room with the likes of BRM and his approach to extracting every ounce of performance in a set of speakers that they would now be just as good at rock, blues or any other type of music and be superior to the SS8's. But I guess in the end it's the listeners taste and dislikes that may decide that for themselves.

Thanks for putting up with my curious mind. 

[kingdeezie]

Thanks DEP14 for letting me ask that question. I don't want to intrude on you're thread but was just curious when people say components and the room can really change what you may have initially thought a particular speaker to sound like.

I remember BRM saying in another thread in regards to his E3's that now they are in his room with the components he has chosen to use that they sound ten times better than they did at RMAF and yet when you visited and heard them they still seem to be in favor of classical/ acoustic type music vs a more rock and blues type speaker.  Which I've now read numerous times from others to be the same case, even BRM himself.

I guess I was thinking once the E3's were in somebody's room with the likes of BRM and his approach to extracting every ounce of performance in a set of speakers that they would now be just as good at rock, blues or any other type of music and be superior to the SS8's. But I guess in the end it's the listeners taste and dislikes that may decide that for themselves.

Thanks for putting up with my curious mind. 

Except that BRM doesn't really listen to rock recordings as much as someone like DEP. So, his sonic priorities are different.

So, in crafting a system of components, BRM is going to gear the sound of his equipment towards what he appreciates about the music he listens to.

So, when DEP goes to BRMs house, and listens to BRMs recordings, and the system that was created in service of BRMs recordings, he appreciates it for those qualities. When he listens to music that he (DEP) likes, and is searching for qualities that he appreciates more, he doesn't get the same flavor, because it has not be tailored by him.

Do I think the Exotica 3 and SS8 sound different? Yes, absolutely. They use different drivers and parts, so they will sound different.

However, an audio system is exactly that, a system. Discounting amps, preamps, power conditioning, source, cables, etc, etc is disingenuous to a real comparison. While speakers make up a large portion of the final sound of a system, they can only reproduce what has been given to them upstream.

Said another way, I could go listen to a pair of SS8s at someone's home, where they are using bright and sterile preamp and amp, with a cheap digital source, and zero power conditioning. They sound bright, harsh, and analytical. I declare that they suck for rock and blues because they are too bright, and make the poor recordings sound unbearable to my ears. Make it true?

Most of the people that have said the SS8s are better with this genre or that genre, have SS8s in their own systems, and have tailored them to their personal liking. Going to listen to a different speaker, in a different system is a very tenuous comparison.

[Rocket]

Hi,

I've never tried to change the sound using different components.  My goal has been to improve clarity, soundstage etc.

Cheers Rod