[a.wayne]

.7 amps is the power drawn by the 2000 in what Crown describes as "awake but idle" mode. Unless the amp has a sleep mode (which I searched for but could not find) that is its quiescent mode and the draw surprised me, too. Many amps draw less than that when idle.

I don't think there are many assumptions in what I posted; I was interpreting the information by interpolating the numbers in the chart Scotty linked to. It's worth having a close look at those numbers.

You say the amp would become unlistenable long before clipping on peaks. Why? The best minds (like Anthony Michaelson of Musical Fidelity, I posted his statement here:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=38733.40 ) have it that we are listening to amps clipping much more than we realize and, since most amps don't recover well or quickly from clipping incidents, the simplest solution is to have so much power that the amp never clips - either that or design an amp that clips gracefully, like most tube amps. That's what's behind the effortless sound of very high power solid state amps.

Sorry, I don't have time to go further into this at the moment - we are leaving for a cross country flight at the crack of dawn tomorrow and I haven't packed yet.

I got no response the last time I posted that text by Michaelson and I wouldn't be surprised if I get no response this time, but I do suggest reading it for the start to a deeper understanding of what is actually demanded of an amplifier in terms of power. It's also good to be keep in the back of your mind, while determining amplifier needs, that most good recordings have a crest factor (peak to average power ratio) of around 15 dB. I try to allow for 20 dB. Those who have not really thought this through often presume a crest factor of around 3 dB in their calcualtions.

Live and learn.

I do agree many undersize their amplfiers and i have never heard a small SS amp sound better than a big one (there's a reason for this )  I will give it a read to see his position and I'm quite familiar with recordings, crest factor, amplifiers operation , speakers, et al , so feel free to throw whatever you wish and I'm not sure who would be using a crest factor of 3dB or why... 

In difference to Michaelson , SS amps do start to get strained sonically way before clipping, soft recovery( soft clipping) amps always sound dead to me and until one examines an amplifier distortion spectra,  you wont appreciate what happens. Tubes on the other hand are tolerable ( most of the time) until clipping, Hence why many state a 100 watt toooby sounds like a 300 watt SS amp , they can listen to the full 100 watts while most SS amps are becoming intolerable as you approach peak power, for SS this magic number in my experience  happens at  33-50% of rms rating with 33% being best.

Hence why many rave when they get a really big SS amp, they are not using anymore power most of the time ,it' just puts them in that 33% window and the music flows...

Regards..

[a.wayne]

Actually, one of the benefits of class D amps over A/AB is that class D amps do not start having distortion rise before clipping, their distortion profile is much flatter, and hence they maintain good sonics until they clip.
Unlike traditional amps, class D amps do not benefit from huge power headroom.

Belcanto





Distortion knee is pretty close to clipping  ....

[RDavidson]

Yup. I totally agree with the concept of running any amp in what I call its "sweet spot." I don't agree a big amp is always better. Bigger amps are also more complex. More complexity can introduce more issues. Regardless of that argument, how much amp one needs depends ENTIRELY on speakers, room, listening distance, and listening volumes......hence the huge variety available to us to try out and find what works best for us on an individual basis.

[a.wayne]

At this rate , Roscoe will end up with every amp known to man..... 

[OzarkTom]

Did anyone notice Roscoe say that he was shipping the cryo amp to me? The Salis Audio 1500 showed up today.

[Tomy2Tone]

Did anyone notice Roscoe say that he was shipping the cryo amp to me? The Salis Audio 1500 showed up today.

I thought he was shipping it to Chris? 

I just remember him saying the tour amp was off to Chris, I think he's still enjoying the cryo amp.

Just so we know what you have, you got one Salis modded 1500, one cryo 1500, and one or two stock 2500's?

Curious to see what you think what Salis was able to do to improve it. 

[a.wayne]

Easy guys, it's easy for Roscoe to get mixed up switching in switching out , who gets what ...   

[Tomy2Tone]

Ok you guys can call me crazy or a liar, I don't care. I added a few Hammond 193m chokes to my listening room and the performance level of the crown amps as well as the rest of my system has improved quite a bit.

It's almost like adding another conditioner or two without losing any dynamics or detail, in fact detail has improved with a better and more crisp soundstage and separation of instruments. May be in part due to the noise floor also decreasing as a result of the chokes. I don't know but I like it!

Very worth while endeavor for little money to get these results. Only thing left would be to try the cryo treatment on the crowns and I think I could have some great sounding amps that could keep me happy for a while, at least until that itch to try something different that comes along.

[OzarkTom]

Just so we know what you have, you got one Salis modded 1500, one cryo 1500, and one or two stock 2500's?

Curious to see what you think what Salis was able to do to improve it. 

0k,I confess, I am a glutton. I have 3-2500's, stock 1500, cryo 1500, and Salis Audio 1500.

For $1050 for all six amps, how could I go wrong?

[Tomy2Tone]

0k,I confess, I am a glutton. I have 3-2500's, stock 1500, cryo 1500, and Salis Audio 1500.

For $1050 for all six amps, how could I go wrong?

Holy smokes! What's the watts per dollar on all those I wonder? 

[OzarkTom]

I just checked the Amazon deal, there is only one 2000 left at the 15% off.

[OzarkTom]

Holy smokes! What's the watts per dollar on all those I wonder? 

What is funny, according to the chart that Russell Dawkins posted, I only need 25 wpc.

[Tomy2Tone]

I just checked the Amazon deal, there is only one 2000 left at the 15% off.

So you're saying you're leaving us one? 

[a.wayne]

Ok you guys can call me crazy or a liar, I don't care. I added a few Hammond 193m chokes to my listening room and the performance level of the crown amps as well as the rest of my system has improved quite a bit.

It's almost like adding another conditioner or two without losing any dynamics or detail, in fact detail has improved with a better a more crisp soundstage and separation of instruments. May be in part due to the noise floor also decreasing as a result of the chokes. I don't know but I like it!

Very worth while endeavor for little money to get these results. Only thing left would be to try the cryo treatment on the crowns and I think I could have some great sounding amps that could keep me happy for a while, at least until that itch to try something different that comes along.

Huh, added to your listening  room ..? what do you mean ..........? 

[wushuliu]

Ok you guys can call me crazy or a liar, I don't care. I added a few Hammond 193m chokes to my listening room and the performance level of the crown amps as well as the rest of my system has improved quite a bit.

The 193M and L are some of the best tweaks for the money. I just mentioned them in the A/V circle regarding my projector setup. Too bad the chokes have doubled in price over the past few years. There is a sale on the M at Parts Express right now though.

This is one of those tweaks that peaked interest for a while then faded so very few know about it nowadays. They're worth it for TV/video if nothing else because the results occur in minutes and you can't miss it.

I've written posts a few times in the past on the 193L and M's big influence on the CDA amps. It's not even remotely subtle.

Despite being very easy to rig, it does involve dealing mains voltages though which is probably why it hasn't taken off more.

And no it's not magic. There are plenty of old threads here and audio asylum on how they work.

[Tomy2Tone]

Huh, added to your listening  room ..? what do you mean ..........? 

I have 3 of these 193m's in three outlets in my room. My sound system is plugged into the middle outlet of the 3 along with one 193m choke.





The level of detail has increased so much that the crowns almost sound like a different but better amp. Everything just cleaned up around all the instruments and voices and sound as if coming from a blacker background. Don't ask me why, it just works and sounds better.

[wushuliu]

The level of detail has increased so much that the crowns almost sound like a different but better amp. Everything just cleaned up around all the instruments and voices and sound as if coming from a blacker background. Don't ask me why, it just works and sounds better.

That's what happened with my CDA amp. You can't not notice it. Big thumps up.

[Tomy2Tone]

The 193M and L are some of the best tweaks for the money. I just mentioned them in the A/V circle regarding my projector setup. Too bad the chokes have doubled in price over the past few years. There is a sale on the M at Parts Express right now though.

This is one of those tweaks that peaked interest for a while then faded so very few know about it. They're worth it for TV/video if nothing else because the results occur in minutes and you can't miss it.

YES! You're the one I wanted to thank for bringing that thread back up or reviving the choke tweak. I have two 193L's into the mix as well. Just realized the pic I posted is the L and not the M but they look the same.

It really is amazing to hear the difference! And yes my Plasma tv has never looked better as well!!

Thank you wushuliu!

[OzarkTom]

Is that power cord special that you have hooked up to the choke?

Hmm, maybe I should get one of those cryo'd.

[Tomy2Tone]

Is that power cord special that you have hooked up to the choke?

Hmm, maybe I should get one of those cryo'd.

Nope, not special. It's actually the cheap power cord that came with the crown amp. 

I remember reading some of those old threads wushuliu was referring to and people said if you have bad or noisy AC like you've reported you will probably benefit even more.