[yertletheturtle]

Hi all
I am relatively new to these discussion groups but have been eyeing intrigued by some of the posts about the Dodd audio $450 pre amp and 8watt amp.  I have a pair of GMA europas which are remaining in my system.  has anyone heard this combo?  howabout shigaraki integrated from 47 labs?

thanks
Dimitri

[doug s.]

Hi all
I am relatively new to these discussion groups but have been eyeing intrigued by some of the posts about the Dodd audio $450 pre amp and 8watt amp.  I have a pair of GMA europas which are remaining in my system.  has anyone heard this combo?  howabout shigaraki integrated from 47 labs?

thanks
Dimitri

dunno anything about whether or not 8w is sufficient to drive your speakers.  but, if the dodd preamp is a simpler iteration of the melos preamp (sha-gold?), as i've been told, then i tink it will be awfully hard to beat it for anywhere near that price...  except, of course, for a used melos sha-1 or sha-3, which is their simpler wersion, along w/built in headfone amp

doug s.

[JackD]

Dimitri

Have owned the Europas for over a year and tried them with multiple amps. The smallest tube amp I found the satisfactory was the 35wpc Music Reference RM-10.  Tried the Quicksilver Minis a 25wpc and didn't feel it was enough, unless you are planning on high passing the Europas and using a sub.  If you are interested in the Dodd you might go a little higher up his line power wise.  Another good option would be the Dodd pre-amp with something like a used Belles HR 150

Jack

[yertletheturtle]

Dimitri

Have owned the Europas for over a year and tried them with multiple amps. The smallest tube amp I found the satisfactory was the 35wpc Music Reference RM-10.  Tried the Quicksilver Minis a 25wpc and didn't feel it was enough, unless you are planning on high passing the Europas and using a sub.  If you are interested in the Dodd you might go a little higher up his line power wise.  Another good option would be the Dodd pre-amp with something like a used Belles HR 150

Jack

appreciate the input....I have a suspicion that you are right however, I am "fortunate" enough to have a small room (15x15x8.5) and a listening position of about 7'.  also from my reading here it appears that the Dodd is significantly underrated, power wise.  Although your experience with the Europas says differently in my current setup using Pass Aleph 3 (30wpc SS) has showed me that in my environment, my Europas are not too greedy.  I have the Dodd 8 watt amp and pre (entry level) coming (used from audiogon) and then noticed the Shigaraki (20wpc ss) for sale, a piece which I have wanted for a while.  I am in a tizzy as to whether to buy the shigaraki too and start comparing.
I probably would were it not for the fact that I have the Aleph 3 and Jolida JD-100 CDP and a box full of cables to sell first.

THANKS!!

[doug s.]

appreciate the input....I have a suspicion that you are right however, I am "fortunate" enough to have a small room (15x15x8.5) and a listening position of about 7'.  also from my reading here it appears that the Dodd is significantly underrated, power wise.  Although your experience with the Europas says differently in my current setup using Pass Aleph 3 (30wpc SS) has showed me that in my environment, my Europas are not too greedy.  I have the Dodd 8 watt amp and pre (entry level) coming (used from audiog ...

use the dodd preamp w/the aleph amps...

doug s.

[JackD]

Dimitri

Good luck with the test, but I think the Pass is also underspeced. Even if the Dodd is too, there is a lot of difference between 8wpc and 35wpc.  And the "underspeced Quicksilvers didn't work"  I agree with Doug, try the pre-amp with the Pass, and that may satisfy what you are looking for.  If you still want that all tube magic all the way through the chain, look at some of the direct Chinese imports like the Shangling, MingDa's or even the ASL amps.

[yertletheturtle]

I'll keep you posted, the Dodds are coming this week.  has anyone tried shigaraki with Europas??
thanks

[yertletheturtle]

1st impression: I just got the dodds in yesterday.  preamp hooked to aleph3 was very nice, smoother than Morrison ELAD when hooked to computer as source.  when the 8wpc amp was added to replace the aleph........WOW! This amp is perhaps not quite as revealing (could be the source as most of my listening on aleph 3 was done with Jolida CDP) but what a dynamic, involving, full range sound!  Better bass than aleph and plays louder too.  at low-moderate (apt building) listening levels I am at 9 o'clock on the dial.  I will update as more time breaking in and listening and I will add a Scott Nixon TubeDac+ today to clean up the source
Dimitri

[LordCloud]

1st impression: I just got the dodds in yesterday.  preamp hooked to aleph3 was very nice, smoother than Morrison ELAD when hooked to computer as source.  when the 8wpc amp was added to replace the aleph........WOW! This amp is perhaps not quite as revealing (could be the source as most of my listening on aleph 3 was done with Jolida CDP) but what a dynamic, involving, full range sound!  Better bass than aleph and plays louder too.  at low-moderate (apt building) listening levels I am at 9 o'clock on the di ...

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It could be the preamp that's maskking some of the detail, I had the opportunity to listen to it extensively at a Utah Audiophile Society member's home. While I thought it was better than the solid state preamp he had, I thought it veiled high frequency information and detail, there just seemed to be some transparency missing. Just my opinion though. This was with an Ahh! cd player, khartago amp, and Triangle speakers.

[Carlman]

Just as a datapoint, I've used the Europa's with an EE Minimax 8watt tube amp with great results.  It does not have the headroom of a SS amp but it sounds beautiful.... effortless and detailed.  I was amazed at how loud it would get w/ just 8 watts.  However, I can't stay in the room with 160 watts of SS powering them.... It's louder than a dance club.

-C

[Bemopti123]

and all I have to say is that it does beautifully with the 86 db two way Epos ES11s.  The sound is not smooth, but wow, really accurate and the base, the base is rich, rhythmic and I never heard that speaker being driven in a better way.

The 47 Labs philosophy with the seemingly underpowered wattage ratings is somewhat conservative. There is someone in the SakuraSystems website, in the galleries that runs a pair of Europas, your speakers, with a gaincard (just 5 more watts) direct with a Wadia digital front end.  I am sure it sounds as amazing as you can imagine.

There are amplifiers that might have a higher rating, but the 47 Labs opamp execution leaves very little to be desired.

At around 1K used, the Shigaraki integrated is highly undervalued, although other people may not see any value in a very well crafted integrated with 3 inputs, a tape monitor but just being rated at 20 watts.

The Shigaraki sound, is strange, I felt as the owner of a 300B SET amplifier that the midrange is keenly similar to the tubed amplifier, not a clone copy, but it is about 90%.  BTW, I run the 300B with a matched pair of WE tubes.  

Experiment with a used Shigaraki if you can, you will be in for a pleasant surprise.