[catmansound]

Hi Vinnie,

I've been thinking, since you will be planning on a stand alone LIO Amp of 125W or greater some time next year, (greater preferred  ), and I am interested in a Tube sounding preamp, I thought I might take you up on free shipping at least to build a LIO with premap, tubestage, and maybe input select, (no amp module), but what confuses me is the AVC vs. RVC. If AVC replaces tubestage & RVC, then does that mean the AVC is a tube stage volume control thingy, whereby every other component is fed from this.

Also, do you plan on the stand alone amp to have a tubestage option and are you considering monoblock or two channel options.

thanks much.
Anthony

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Anthony,

I've been thinking, since you will be planning on a stand alone LIO Amp of 125W or greater some time next year, (greater preferred  ),

Yes - for those who need more power than the LIO MOSFET Amp module provides, you have a few options:

1) You can use ANY power amp of your choice, as you can configure the LIO to be something like:
a. A preamp only (active or passive)
b. A preamp with dac and/or phonostage and/or Headphone output stage - so a multi-function component.
c. A dac (or phonostage, or BOTH) with volume controlled outputs to feed a power amp

2) In the 2nd-half of 2015, I plan to offer a Ultracapacitor-Powered, MOSFET Power Amp (no name decided at this point).  It would be the approx. same size as the LIO, and would ONLY be a power amp.  So you'd feed it with your LIO (or preamp of your choice).  I am looking for it to at least have 100wpc into 8-ohm (200 wpc into 4, and more in to 2 ohm).  Maybe a little more - we'll see.  You would be able to stack the LIO on top of it if you wanted, as there are no power supply transformers or AC/DC conversion in these units (no noise pick-up between units).  It will be a dual-mono unit (essentially two monoblocks in one enclosure).  I have no idea on pricing and won't until a few months from now.  It will ONLY be a MOSFET power amp (no tubes).  Super high current - and like LIO, way beyond what we have offered before!  It will be a one-of-a-kind design, including what I have in mind for the amplifier design!     My lips are sealed - More on this in 2015!

NOTES: 

-- Before you decide on using a more powerful power amp, I HIGHLY recommend first trying the LIO MOSFET Amp.  Why?  Because it most likely will surprise the heck out of you!        If within 30-days you decide that it is not doing the trick, you can simply just return the LIO MOSFET Amp module for a full-refund, and then KEEP LIO as everything you configured it for, and feed it into your power amp of choice.

-- Even if you already have a power amp that you enjoy, still consider TRYING the LIO MOSFET Amp.  You have nothing to lose, and even compared to more powerful amps, LIO MOSFET Amp is going to do things that many others cannot!  You might very well prefer it, and for the cost that adding that module in, it could end up being a total no-brainer to keep it.     This is the beauty of LIO:  Once you buy the LIO system, adding other modules is way less expensive than buying separate components to get the same functionality (as well as interconnects, power cables, etc). 

-- You can even decide to turn the LIO MOSFET Amp ON/OFF via the front panel "AMP" button - separately from the rest of the LIO system (e.g. - when listening to headphones if you order the LIO HPA module, or if you want to just use your LIO as a preamplifier, or dac/preamp at the moment - into another amp with a different "flavor" like an SET or Class A space heater or whatever it may be  ).  Total flexibility is the name of the game with LIO, got it ? 

what confuses me is the AVC vs. RVC. If AVC replaces tubestage & RVC, then does that mean the AVC is a tube stage volume control thingy, whereby every other component is fed from this.

OK - here we go:

The AVC is an Autoformer Volume Control -- If you configure the LIO with analog LIO INPUTS module (3 analog inputs) and the AVC module, what you end up with is one of the very best passive preamplifiers available - period!   "Passive" because the AVC does not used active electronics (no tubes, no transistors, no opamps).  The volume levels gets stepped-up or stepped-down via the windings in the autoformers, which are specially wound signal transformers with multiple input/output taps, or windings, that individually get selected via small relays.  Unlike resistor based (or LDR based) passive preamps, AVC's can actually give you GAIN (max output of the LIO AVC is +7dB) because of the step-up of the input signal via the transformer.  And when you attenuate the signal (lower volume levels), you are not "throwing away" signal in the same way as a resistor volume control or LDR.  Stepping-down voltage, or volume (attenuation), also steps-up current.  So there is more "drive" of the output signal (lower output impedance) - much like an active preamp.  Very cool stuff, and ideal for those who want a super-transparent sounding preamp w/o tubes or transistors.  You get 64 volume settings - so very precise volume control in nearly 1dB steps.  Since our AVC is "dual mono" - we also implement a balance control, but WITHOUT adding any addition circuitry!  How?  By setting one channel at 1, 2, 3, etc. steps lower than the other channel, and then raising/lowering both channels at the same time, you have balance control.  All controlled via the remote handset (and free iOS/Android app for tablets/smartphones coming soon!)

The RVC is a Resistor Volume Control -- much like a stepped attenuator volume control.  This is a passive volume control, but with no gain (max output is 0dB, or 1x the input).  When you add LIO INPUTS module (3 analog inputs), you also get a passive preamp. You get excellent tracking between channels by via precision resistors with tight tolerance.  Very short and clean signal traces.  Volume settings ("steps") are controlled via small relays switching resistors on the board that set the attenuation.  Sound is as good as the best stepped attenuators (e.g. Goldpoint or DACT), and you get volume 64 settings, so it is also very precise volume control in nearly 1dB steps.  And same balance control and remote control as I mention above with the AVC.

Now - if you take the LIO RVC (above) and follow it with the LIO Tubestage, what you end up with is an active, tube preamp.  LIO Tubestage has hi/low gain switch on the board, so you can adjust to get best matching with your power amp and speaker sensitivity.  LIO Tubestage is an all new design with constant-current, Class A biasing and constant-current tube filament supply, precision voltage-regulation, and other tweaks that keep the parts count low and circuit path clean.  This is no doubt our best tubestage - More open and extended sounding, more dynamic, lowest noise yet!

MORE NOTES:

-- In any configuration, LIO comes with LIO Outputs module.  This gives you two variable (volume controlled) RCA outputs (assuming you order a volume control), as well as one fixed-level RCA output (used if you order source module like LIO DSD/PCM dac, or LIO Phonostage).  So if you make a LIO preamp and add the dac, you get both preamp outputs, and dac-direct outputs (no volume control) that come automatically. 

-- Why can't you order the LIO AVC and LIO Tubestage?  Because the LIO AVC requires the same location inside the LIO as the LIO Tubestage.  So your choices of volume are:

1) LIO RVC only (passive)
2) LIO RVC + tubestage (active)
3) LIO AVC (passive, with gain)

I think that is it for now.

Everyone - keep the questions coming!  "LIO is so simple that it actually seems complex" - Me. 
I want everyone to understand it, and if you believe I can explain things better here in this forum or on
the our website, www.vinnierossi.com, please let me know.  Your suggestions are appreciated!

Thank you,

Vinnie
 

[catmansound]

Ok Vinnie, that answers my question(s).  and made me a bit lightheaded to say the least , nevertheless, thank you, i get it, sort of, almost .

The question one might ask is go passive or active preamp, and if i'm reading your reply correctly the passive AVC autoformer is a cleaner more direct and robust sound than the RVC + tubestage? Yet the tubestage would still deliver that certain je ne sais quoi 'tube' sound that would still resonate with tube aficionados? In summation, can you describe sonic differences?

And by the way, i hope you didn't mind the mention the forthcoming amp, you did post it on the LIO website, so i thought it was ok to talk about it.

cheers,
Anthony

ps> broken link on customize purchase page when you select silver knobs, black plate and silver top, you get no image.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Anthony,

ps> broken link on customize purchase page when you select silver knobs, black plate and silver top, you get no image.

Thanks for catching that - I'll get it fixed asap!

The question one might ask is go passive or active preamp, and if i'm reading your reply correctly the passive AVC autoformer is a cleaner more direct and robust sound than the RVC + tubestage? Yet the tubestage would still deliver that certain je ne sais quoi 'tube' sound that would still resonate with tube aficionados? In summation, can you describe sonic differences?

Srajan of 6moons asked a similar question for his upcoming LIO review (currently there is a preview): http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi/1.html

Given the plug'n'play modularity of LIO, I asked whether for review I could get both the AVC and the tube stage + RVC modules. "Sure. This will be very good to write about (how one can easily swap and how you find them to compare sonically). I don't see one as better than the other. They simply have different flavours. For super transparency and neutrality, the AVC is hard to beat. For more meat on the bones of tonal richness, density and a greater sense of space albeit at the expense of some transparency and speed, the RVC plus tube stage are the way to go. Some customers in fact might want to have both and change things up every now and then; or as they change their system (e.g. different modules will work best with different speakers or headphones)."

No problem mentioning the forthcoming LIO power amp! 

Thank you,

Vinnie

[barnestn]

Can one of the inputs be configured for HT pass-through?

[Vinnie R.]

Can one of the inputs be configured for HT pass-through?

Hi barnestn,

I am *pretty sure* that I can do it (hard wiring under the board).  For a future rev of the Inputs module, perhaps I can do it
with a jumper that the user and install or not (if they want HT bypass for one of the inputs or not). 

I'm not sure how many guys are interested in a HT bypass option.  If there is enough interest, I could make a custom Inputs module for
this at some point.  Anyway, please contact me privately and I should be able to hard wire in this feature if you require it.

Oh, you HT guys - always making things complicated!     

Vinnie

[barnestn]

I don't have the luxury of a dedicated listening room so the HT bypass is a huge convenience and I certainly do appreciate your flexibility.  Also, thanks for the prompt response.
   --Bob