[geofstro]

Agreed. And I think these low cost wonders are helping to put the fun back into it.

It would be great if a new crop of dealers arrived on the scene specialising in putting low cost systems together based on these components, adding value by using their skills in putting the systems together. Of course I don't know if there would be enough margin on these items to make it feasible. On the other hand it's always easier to sell lower priced systems. People would have to be prepared to pay a little above the discount stores for the services they'd be getting.

A little bit like the old days pioneered by Linn and Naim in Britain who championed single speaker dem rooms, etc. before it all went through the roof price wise.

geoff

[ABEX]

What I find disturbing is what others are hailing having to do with IPOD's and quick Digital recordings which are not audiophile grade. It seems that audio will take a turn for the worst when it comes to those that know about what might be best when trying to get the ultamate performance in order to get the most accurate and involving reproduction.

Just lokking at developments in audio.

[Bingo]

Speaking of audiophile grade recordings, it makes me wonder how many pieces of old and ancient gear should be reconsidered with the advances in technology.  We have had some fantastic pieces of equipment for decades and decades and didn't have the ability to feed them the proper diet of good clean input information, giving us little idea what alot of speakers and amplifiers were capable of reproducing.  The turntable was often the weak link and just because someone may have had purchased a sweet set-up, like an EMT or Fulton cartridge, didn't mean it was set up for maximum performance.  Remeber the horror of some early 70's solid state recordings or early digital recordings? They still won't sound good on anything.   I still love the magic of a good analog table and tube gear, but even then, alot of that gear came along after some great old gear had gone prematurely bye-bye.  No telling how many great speakers, alone, may have come and gone without ever tasting good input information.

[orthobiz]

Yo, Bingo! A better sonic diet...
Maybe that's why my redone Dahlquists are sounding so good lately!
I'm glad I didn't toss them.

biz

[Dmason]

maybe abit off point, but some of the best sound I ever heard in terms of real presence was as a 17 year old, wiring a good cassette deck to the input of the tube amp in my Hammond organ, (some kids had guns,) and wiring the output to an Altec Voice of the Theatre horn two way.

I cannot imagine what the modern day iteration of that set up would sound like with a trick SET 10 watter, and new drivers in the bins and horns,  but I can tell you that it was dangerously beautiful, and it has never been duplicated since, to these ears. You weren't listening to speakers, you were HEARING music.

[mcgsxr]

What I find disturbing is what others are hailing having to do with IPOD's and quick Digital recordings which are not audiophile grade. It seems that audio will take a turn for the worst when it comes to those that know about what might be best when trying to get the ultamate performance in order to get the most accurate and involving reproduction.

Now this is a good point - where are the format wars taking sound, and how will this affect the gear that is driven by it.

Hi-Rez - would seem to be closely (though not entirely) tied to multichannel, so I doubt that will become highly portable in the near future - but for cars of course.

CD, Analog - no change I would say - discs are still discs.

MP3, AAIF + other formats - well, here I am out of my depth almost right away - I don't use any of this jazz, I am strictly a shiny disc guy, so the compressed formats (or stored, ripped formats) are irrelevant to me.  That said, I am CLEARLY in the minority here, and am pleased to step out of the way - UNTIL a format that ultimately preserves the quality of the music is widely available.

These compressed (for the most part) formats are one of the driving forces behind what I call the "lifestylification" of audio equipment in general.  IPODS, other small HD solutions, and the networking of music are driving changes in how audio products are marketed, distributed, and developed.  Some of these are not relevant to us, the audio geeks who give a rat's arse for quality reproduction, but some might be - as these formats drive the acceptance and market penetration of the digital amplification side (even if only strictly for convenience purposes) it will result in better sound for those of us who care.

Of course, as others have correctly pointed out, that also means that I will have to become a MUSIC lover, and drop the audiophilistinism...

Right, it is about the music after all.

Have a great day,

mark in Canada

[geofstro]

My feeling is that people are becoming far more aware of quality then ever before.

The reason I say this is because, first if all, most people are concerned with quantity over quality. Because of that, special audiophile pressings, SACD, DVD-A's and the like have always been hard to sell. You usually pay more and often get less in terms of quantity.

This has changed with online downloading of music however, and I think that is because people can actually see that a WAV, AIFF , APE or FLAC are all much larger files than the corresponding MP3's, and other compressed formats, for exactly the same piece of music.

People can see the uncompressed or lossless formats are bigger, the quantity is greater. They realise there must be a reason and start listening more closely than ever before, and making comparisons between the formats.

Witness the popularity of EAC (exact audio copy) which involves an interest in optimising the quality almost to an obssesive degree.

On top of that Apple have introduced Apple Lossless and I don't think it'll be long before they start making files in that format available through the iTunes music store.

Steve Jobs is afterall an audiophile himself and when the Apple music store was first introduced he trumpeted the fact that although their AAC files were compressed they had exclusive deals in some cases which allowed them first generation copies from the master tape. Itunes music store has set the standard (even Microsoft acknowledges that)and I for one would soon start buying music from them if they went lossless.

So I really believe the future has never looked brighter for high quality music issues. As people become more conscience of the benefits and high speed internet access spreads farther and wider, there will be no need to keep to the old CD standard. People will want to go beyond it, as they increasingly realise that when it comes to quality 'size really matters'.

geoff

[mcgsxr]

I would NEVER want to disagree with another Teac advocate, and so this is not necessarily in disagreement - I am not sure if I agree though...

I do agree that SOME are aware of, and proponents of preserving the quality of the audio signal, while promoting portability and interconnectivity, BUT none of my friends do - all the people that I know who use compressed format, or who use digital sources, are in it for the reduced file sizes.  They all freely admit that they live on the others side of the fence that divides convenience from fidelity.

Now, I am not suggesting that the two will forever be mutually exclusive, and I do know that at present there are ways to get both BUT, I find that the distinct majority who subscribe to ripped music, do it for the convenience factor, and most could care less about the end quality.

That rant all said, I do know from reading here, and on Head-fi, that there are those who aspire to combine high quality, with large format storage, and broad availability.

Geofstro, as usual, is right on the money when he describes how Apple and Mr Jobs are onside for some quality ripped media, and EAC is rapidly gaining speed, but in my world, it has not yet come together.

Perhaps I am a ludite after all and my small, ego-centric view of the universe disallows me to embrace these technologies until such a time as they have reached a certain level of market penetration.  Doubtful, since I own a digital amp, and a new computer, and work in IT.

I will gladly give up the small shiny disc, when it becomes less convenient for me, AND the competing technologies offer the same, or improved fidelity.  It cannot really be that far off, but at the moment, in sunny Burlington, Ontario, I find more people interested in MP3's so that they can carry 20Gb of music on their hip, than 10Gb of perfectly preserved sound in their Ipod.

Probably just me...

Mark in Canada

[geofstro]

Mark,

I've been missing the sound of my Teac for the last few days  

all the people that I know who use compressed format, or who use digital sources, are in it for the reduced file sizes

I agree most people are in that situation. I think though, that's out of necessity and is gradually changing as all types of bandwidth continue to expand and come down in cost. From iPod capacity and HD's in general to Internet bandwidth and speed.

I find that the distinct majority who subscribe to ripped music, do it for the convenience factor, and most could care less about the end quality.

Again, I agree. I just don't believe, however, that it's the majority that ever lead these trends. The lead is always taken up by a few and the rest follow (eventually).

That rant all said, I do know from reading here, and on Head-fi, that there are those who aspire to combine high quality, with large format storage, and broad availability.

Didn't sound like a rant to me Mark. I think your position is quite understandable. I just happen to feel that the people here and on places like Head-fi are the ones leading the evolution here. I also think there are far more people around like that nowadays than the few of us who used to seek out the high quality pressings, etc. in the past.

Doubtful, since I own a digital amp, and a new computer, and work in IT.

Snap  

I think we're entering a time when music will just be constantly on tap like water (well, actually we drink bottled here) and people will always carry their soundtracks with them wherever they go, from the time they wake up until the end of each day. For most of those people compressed files would remain good enough. Again I agree on this. I just feel that there are more people aware of the quality differences now and that with the expanding bandwidth, higher quality will gradually filter down to everyone, whether they feel the need for it ot not. Of course, there will always be a few of us who're aiming to push the barriers further.

I guess I'm just an optimist at heart.

geoff

[mcgsxr]

I think that you are on the right track, and what you propose would be great, but I am unsure if there really are more people aware of the quality differences or not - since we hang around places like this, we are exposed to people who ARE aware/interested in high quality digital media that can be shared/networked BUT I am not sure that equates a groundswell in society at large yet.

Now, it could be that savvy manufacturers do frequent these boards (or at least savvy product managers) so they might be aware of the wants and needs of the 'phile.

In any case, I hope that you are right, and that high quality digital media is on the horizon - I don't love cd's, so IF I can replicate their level of relative quality, then I will gladly use a server or network connection to run audio to my system.

mark in Canada