[happyrabbit]

MHDT Pagoda is an interesting nos dac based on the BB 1704     I used to own the Havana before obtaining the Metrum Octave (which I still own).   Recently dropped in a pair of Jupiter Coppers..  Very sweet

YMMV

Dwight

[Canada Rob]

My ultimate criteria for any DAC is how close it comes to a good vinyl rig, and how well it does 16/44.  Don't think I disregard higher resolutions as I know generally they sound better than 16/44.  However, many hi-rez DACs don't do 16/44 as well as a good dedicated NOS DAC like the Audio Sector. 

The OP started this thread entitled "DAC recommendations/experiences with Omega Loudspeakers".  I personally believe more care should be taken when choosing a DAC (or any upline equipment) when pairing it with Omega speakers because of their transparent nature and ability to reveal everything upline, and not gloss it over.

In relation to Omega Speakers, some of my favorite DACs are: Audio Sector USB, Resonessence LAB Concero HD USB, and KingRex UD01 USB with PSU MK2.  In the more affordable category: Audioengine D1, and Glow Audio DAC V1.3.

The KingRex UD384 with UPower battery is also incredible, but I heard it on a very good solid state, non Omega system.
The Resonessence Labs Herus+ has only been played briefly in my main system but what I heard sounded great,
so I'll not comment on it other than to say it's super with the IEMs I tried with it.

Salis Audio brought up a very important subject concerning good sound in a DAC, and that's how it's powered.  The Audio Sector, KingRex UD01, and KingRex UD384 with UPower are all self powered with high quality power supplies and are all incredible sounding.

Does that mean the others don't sound good because they're USB buss powered?  No, not at all.  The Concero HD is one of the best DACs I've heard, but I think separate clean power would take it to the next level, ditto the other USB powered DACs on my list.
The answer is to split the USB cable 5V buss from its digital side and feed separate clean power through the 5V buss side.  There are three options that I know of: iFi iUSBPower USB power conditioner, batteries like the KingRex UPower and Bacoon BPS-02, or a 5V power supply like the Aqvox.

[guillaume bougard]

Hello

I stumbled upon the Musical Paradise DAC, which is 500 bucks and has excellent reviews both from professional reviewers and from users. Has anyone heard those and what are the impressions?

http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=56

[squirrelman]

I just got a nice demo Jolida Glass FX Dac III today and so far I'm loving it's sound.  I've got it running from my macbook pro to my Miniwatt N3 (still waiting for my new amp to come in) to my 3U and it sounds amazing.  It takes 2 12ax7 tubes, mine came with Russian Re-Issue Tung-Sols, so I'll after I get used to its sound and let it break in a little I'll report back when I roll the tubes.  I'm thinking either some NOS Telefunken or new Psvanes.

[Dave Jameson]

Lots of good feedback here, guys!

I have been playing around with the Resonessence Labs Dacs as well and while I admit to initially expecting their dynamic range would be lost on my Super 3XRS, I couldn't be more wrong. Both the Concero HD and Invicta Mirus (thought the later should be amazing given its price) not only provide me with the smoothest sound through my system but also have the cleanest extension in both the bass and highs. Mahler sounds killer through that tiny driver!

I had a friend, who is a bit sceptical of full-range drivers, over to listen and he was shocked at how good the RLabs Omega 3 XRS combo was! But a quick change in DAC/source in my system can (and does, in my system) immediately yield poor results--the kind of results full-range nay sayers expect. So the RLabs DAC stays!  Hence the purpose of this particular forum

Thanks guys!

[kevtn8]

It's pretty amazing and could probably go up against many DACs in the under $5k range. I also had an Auralic Vega DAC ($3500) to test and the Sony is just as good. My system is single ended and the Vega will sound better balanced so if you convert the Vega's balanced to single ended using a trafo you'll get better results but now it's 2x+ the cost of the Sony, a computer and USB cable are still required. It's pretty hard to fault the Sony in any way except when I first got it it had a very accurate SS sound, not in a bad way, but the last couple firmware upgrades have made it sound very natural and more relaxed... it's hard to tell what the output stage is now, could be a very good tube or SS, you wouldn't know until you look. It's dual mono and the separation and imaging are far better then the Bifrost it replaced, the Sony makes the Omegas throw a huge soundstage and imaging is very precise. I think the last firmware upgrades are providing a similar sound to the tube output stages developed by Red Wine and Modwright, at first I could see using a tube output stage but now it's very close to perfect and i have no plans to upgrade it at all.

I recently acquired the Sony HAP Z1ES music player and although I'm still burning it in, I'm pretty impressed with it so far. All of my dacs in the past have been NOS and tube buffered so I'm still getting used to the slightly diff sound signature of the Sony. The DSD remastering engine is pretty impressive and I can hardly tell the difference between 16bit/44.1khz flac/wav files compared to DSD. Internet radio is the best I've heard even with the 128kbps mp3s.

DaveC113, have you heard the tube mods of RedwineAudio and or Modwright yet on the Sony? I was somewhat interested in those mods but if the stock Sony right now is sounding very similar to them, I'll be saving my money for sure. Regarding the settings such as DSD remastering, DSEE , and oversampling.......how or when are you using these features to best take advantage of them? Any negative effects with using 'volume normalization' ?

[DaveC113]

Hi kevtn8, I tried DSEE on/off and liked it better on with the few things I tried it with so it's just stayed in that position... I do not bother to adjust it although I wouldn't be surprised if some material sounds better with DSEE off. I have never tried the volume leveling feature, on 24 bit recordings it shouldn't be noticeable but I suppose it could on 16 bit. It is kinda annoying sometimes as vinyl rips are often recorded at a lower level so maybe I will try it sometime.

I have never heard the modded Sonys in my system but I heard the RWA through headphones and an amp I am completely unfamiliar with.     My guess is that it's slightly more relaxed vs the stock Sony but as I said the sound of the Sony went from "This sounds like quality SS" to being very neutral in character after a firmware upgrade, now I feel it is close to perfect... I wouldn't mess with it.

I agree one of the best things about the Sony is that it can make low-rez material and redbook sound very good, a majority of my collection is redbook so having a DAC that maximizes it's sound quality is very important to me.

[guillaume bougard]

I just got a nice demo Jolida Glass FX Dac III today and so far I'm loving it's sound.  I've got it running from my macbook pro to my Miniwatt N3 (still waiting for my new amp to come in) to my 3U and it sounds amazing.  It takes 2 12ax7 tubes, mine came with Russian Re-Issue Tung-Sols, so I'll after I get used to its sound and let it break in a little I'll report back when I roll the tubes.  I'm thinking either some NOS Telefunken or new Psvanes.

Hi Squirrelman:

so how does your Jolida Dac sound now that you've broken it in?
Also is it made in the US?

[Canada Rob]

Jolida is made in China.

[ryanmartinson]

MHDT Pagoda is an interesting nos dac based on the BB 1704     I used to own the Havana before obtaining the Metrum Octave (which I still own).   Recently dropped in a pair of Jupiter Coppers..  Very sweet

YMMV

Dwight

Happyrabbit, I'm a little late to this thread...are you still using a Metrum Octave with your Omegas? I have a pair of Alnico XRS on the way and plan to use an Octave. Do you think they're a good match or have any impressions vs. other DACs? Could you explain more about the Jupiter Copper upgrade and how it affected the sound?

Thanks!
Ryan

[Folsom]

I've been thinking about getting a DAC to use for computer based playback.

My trouble is I'm not even sure what I'd want. I've owned two 1543 DAC's, Peter Daniels (not the PTTL). They're still so much better than things in the price range it's silly. But Blackgate caps folded, and there's no PCB's. The fact they don't take any hi-res isn't a bad thing sonically, but bad for those that own hi-res media.

I guess the question is, do I need to develop one? I've got plans for a DSD device, but I haven't started, and would have to upscale everything to DSD for playback.

It's actually somewhat frustrating looking for a DIY DAC that's in the world class status like the PD units. As far as buying one I'm not ready to spend spend $3500 or better on something I'll probably have to tear apart to satisfy me.

[Ultralight]

If your measure of a DAC is how close it approximates Vinyl, I note that at least one proreviewer and possibly two talked about how the Line Magnetic 502CA is remarkably vinyl like in its sound.  It's the only DAC I've ever had so I can't really compare - just like the LM 518ia amp is the only amp I really owned for any length of time.  I picked those without even knowing they are supposed to be very good.  Just very blessed in the process.

My ultimate criteria for any DAC is how close it comes to a good vinyl rig, and how well it does 16/44.  Don't think I disregard higher resolutions as I know generally they sound better than 16/44.  However, many hi-rez DACs don't do 16/44 as well as a good dedicated NOS DAC like the Audio Sector. 

The OP started this thread entitled "DAC recommendations/experiences with Omega Loudspeakers".  I personally believe more care should be taken when choosing a DAC (or any upline equipment) when pairing it with Omega speakers because of their transparent nature and ability to reveal everything upline, and not gloss it over.

In relation to Omega Speakers, some of my favorite DACs are: Audio Sector USB, Resonessence LAB Concero HD USB, and KingRex UD01 USB with PSU MK2.  In the more affordable category: Audioengine D1, and Glow Audio DAC V1.3.

The KingRex UD384 with UPower battery is also incredible, but I heard it on a very good solid state, non Omega system.
The Resonessence Labs Herus+ has only been played briefly in my main system but what I heard sounded great,
so I'll not comment on it other than to say it's super with the IEMs I tried with it.

Salis Audio brought up a very important subject concerning good sound in a DAC, and that's how it's powered.  The Audio Sector, KingRex UD01, and KingRex UD384 with UPower are all self powered with high quality power supplies and are all incredible sounding.

Does that mean the others don't sound good because they're USB buss powered?  No, not at all.  The Concero HD is one of the best DACs I've heard, but I think separate clean power would take it to the next level, ditto the other USB powered DACs on my list.
The answer is to split the USB cable 5V buss from its digital side and feed separate clean power through the 5V buss side.  There are three options that I know of: iFi iUSBPower USB power conditioner, batteries like the KingRex UPower and Bacoon BPS-02, or a 5V power supply like the Aqvox.

[Folsom]

It might be a bit of a stretch to say vinyl. What they really want is just the lower fatigue and good timbre.

[happyrabbit]

ryan

the pagoda with a bendix 6385 plus the jupiter cu is the real deal.  i think a dac with a tube output stage is  .  its a great dac .   a couple months ago , i returned a dac minus 15%.   i still own the pagoda.




Dwight

[Dragon_vibe]

MSB Analog DAC mated with a very good Tube Pre-Amp.

[Sense63]

Has anyone heard the PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Omegas (or any speakers)?

Expen$ive as-all-get-out but owners of it say it is almost the last word in extracting detail from 44/16 material. It upsamples PCM to 10xDSD then downsamples to 2xDSD before a simple passive output filter.  I've been talking with the designer who is convinced of DSD's intrinsic natural sound quality.

The PS Audio DirectStream DAC is the best I've ever heard and that's after having an EAR Acute 3.  It's difficult to put into words, but it pulls more information out of recordings than anything I've experienced while maintaining a very analog sound.  (It really is the closest to vinyl in my experience)  My Super Alnicos have gone to the next level sonically.

[DaveC113]

I've been thinking about getting a DAC to use for computer based playback.

My trouble is I'm not even sure what I'd want. I've owned two 1543 DAC's, Peter Daniels (not the PTTL). They're still so much better than things in the price range it's silly. But Blackgate caps folded, and there's no PCB's. The fact they don't take any hi-res isn't a bad thing sonically, but bad for those that own hi-res media.

I guess the question is, do I need to develop one? I've got plans for a DSD device, but I haven't started, and would have to upscale everything to DSD for playback.

It's actually somewhat frustrating looking for a DIY DAC that's in the world class status like the PD units. As far as buying one I'm not ready to spend spend $3500 or better on something I'll probably have to tear apart to satisfy me.

IMO, the Sony HAP is the way to go unless you have $4k+, I've tried lots of cheaper DACs and the Sony is in another league, about as good as an Auralic Vega.

[Sense63]

IMO, the Sony HAP is the way to go unless you have $4k+, I've tried lots of cheaper DACs and the Sony is in another league, about as good as an Auralic Vega.

I've also owned the Sony HAP and the PS Audio DirectStream is in a completely different league.  You can pick up a new DirectStream for much less than $4k even though it's MSRP is $6k.  You also get free updates in firmware as new code is written.

[ozoid]

Interesting that this thread was revived after being dormant for so long. There's so much development in DACs that I have to wonder how much of the early posts is still relevant.

I'm still using the same DAC I had when the thread began, and no one has mentioned it so I thought I'd throw it out here.

Mine is an original Meridian Explorer, USB-powered and fed by a MacBook Plus running Audirvana Plus that's up sampling AIFF rips from CDs to 24/176.4. Mk I is only $150, if you can still find it. Mk II ($300) is basically the same, but it has Meridian's new super-duper streaming technology that Tidal has adopted.

The Decware Zen UFO sits on my desk, next to the Mac, and it's only a short slide on the desk chair from the desk to the optimum listening position for this viable, but hardly optimal listening room.

ZLS graciously allowed me to bring the Mac-Meridian combo when I visited him to listen to his RS5 and Alnico speakers. (Once again, thanks, Zack for introducing me to the Alnico Monitors.) He didn't think much of the Audirvana-Meridian combo, and much preferred his Pure Music-DAC set-up running at 16/44.1.

My feeling is that contemporary digital recordings and recently re-mastered transfers from analog material are usually in 24/192, then down-rezzed to redbook via some kind of algorithm. Seems only fair to see if there's an algorithm that can fill in the extra data for 24/192, and I think Audirvana does this quite musically.

I also brought my Mac-Meridian rig to Decware World Headquarters where I auditioned the Zen amp. So here I was, in the amp designer's own listening room, listening to his amp and his speakers, fed by my little $150 DAC. I just figured it made sense since it was so portable, I could use my own recordings, and it would be the source for whatever amp and speakers I would end up with. Unsolicited, Steve said he liked the sound.

What I get from this combo is remarkably analog-like. I should also say that I've never much liked digital. In fact, I only broke down and bought a CD player, by California Audio Labs, when the last LP cut-out bin disappeared from music stores. And then I listened to music less and less.

The audio capital budget is committed for the foreseeable future to restoring my analog gear, but at some point I'll surface and see what the DAC options are then. In the meantime, this A+ > Meridian > Decware Zen > Alnico monitor rig is really quite good, giving me tremendously rich tone and presence and rendering so finely the micro dynamics of a virtuoso like Radu Lupu on late Schubert piano sonatas that I think he might actually start to make records again if he could only hear what I'm hearing!

[Canada Rob]

There's so much development in DACs that I have to wonder how much of the early posts is still relevant.

Good point Ozoid. 

And almost all DAC development is for formats which comprise about 1% of what's available in digital recordings and add to that much of whats available in the higher resolutions is nothing more than reworked 16/44.  Also, why would I pay $20 plus for a hi-res download when I can go to almost any thrift store or flea market and get a CD for 50 cents to $5.00.  The mass exodus from CDs is a bonus to those of us who want to amass a large collection of music for a very reasonable price.

A good NOS DAC from 7 or so years ago is still very much in the running and in the 16/44 format unbeaten by the high number crunchers IME.  I've had my TDA1543 based DAC for about 7 years and it's still unbeaten.  Even a properly implemented humble PCM2704 can sound incredibly good.

In light of the fact that music listening is migrating to the the likes of Tidal and Spotify it makes the NOS DAC look even more attractive.

NOS DACs will likely never be big sellers (just like SETs and single driver speakers) because big numbers of anything be it in resolution, number of drivers, watts per channel, horsepower, top speed etc.....sells.

Just listen to a well set up vintage Altec or similar system from the 60s and you'll see how far the mass audio industry hasn't come.