[Mad DOg]

setup #2

Selah Audio SA-1 speakers on Osiris stands
Onix Rocket RS250mkIIs and Onix Reference 1s on carpet

Onix H34 integrated tube amp and Onix CD-1 CDP on Skylan rack

Onix Statement speaker cables, Onix Statement 1 power cord and Onix Master power cord

[zybar]

I realize that you are 3 hours behind and most likely still listening, but I am anxiously awaiting for some initial impressions.

Don't forget to post thoughts and pics.

Hope you are having a good time.

George

[drunkonjack]

I am also anxous to here some thought on the event and gear  

[shokunin]

Well I JUST got home a few minutes ago, my car is still packed to the gills in gear.  First off, hat's off and mucho thanks to Mad Dog and his lovely wife.   Mark Shifter was kind enough to raffle off some excellent gear as well as Mike from cyrotweaks and the magic mushrooms that John Casler brought as well.  

All in all it was a lot of fun.  The agenda was to first determine which power conditioner should be used.  At this point we were listening the Mad Dog's equipment and the Onix Ref 3's.   The consensus seemed to prefer the BPT 3.5 sig over the Hydra, so that is what we used for the remainder of the listening sessions.

Second up was speakers, Von Schweikert VR4jr's versus Onix Ref 3's.  Both were good speakers, the VSA were a bit warm in the midbass and wasn't as well defined through the midrange, while the Onix had a bit up a midbass bump and I felt it had a hint of glare, but I voted for the Onix Ref's as did a number of others.  We used the Onix Ref for most of the remainder of the session, however, the question... hmm I bet xxx would sound better on the VR4's so we did end up listening to both quite a bit.

On the amps, we had Palladium monoblocks, Rowland M201 monoblocks, the SST Son of Ampzilla stereo amp and the Pass Labs X-250 stereo amp.  After listening to MD's Palladium, we switched to the Rowland monoblocks where it had lots of air time..  the Rowlands were very different from the rest of the pack (eg.. the non-digital amps, even though the Rowland isn't a pure digital design).  I still felt that it was missing a bit of lower-midrange weight and body when we listened to vocals, especially on Josh Groban.  

After the 201's came the much anticipated listening the the SoA.  comin on the heels of the 201's, the sound was very different.  The SoA was very smooth, not as detailed, not as fast, but nonetheless was a very warm and smooth amp.  It had a lot more midbass energy than the rowlands did.  Tubistors?  that is definitely what is sounded like.  It had a more natural tone to my ears.  The next up was the Pass x-250, which I know very well.  Surprisingly the Pass wasn't hugely different from the SoA, they did share similar qualities, but the SoA was better.    All the amps were different in their own respects to sound good in the right system.  

It was a pleasure meeting both Mark Shifter and Steve McCormack.  Steve stayed late and gave his thoughts on the speakers performance as well as his thoughts on amps and preamp design.

[Jon L]

It's 1 AM and I just got back.  I was one of the last minute stragglers.  As always it was a blast, and I can't believe I won a pair of those red ebony Rocket 250 Mk II's  

We all must thank Shokunin for bringing so much gear to listen to.  And hopefully those with pictures will post them soon.  My impressions:

Hydra (original with Elrod Sig 3 cord) vs. BPT 3.5 sig(with BPT cord)

I liked both, and I think the preference will depend on system used.  In this system, BPT tended to give more harmonically dense midrange textures and clearer/brighter.  Hydra was smoother, airier, more at ease.  Ultimately, the comparison wasn't "fair" as the Hydra had a captive Nema plug with Elrod.

Rocket 550 mk II vs. the rest

This speaker at around $1000 was Way better than the price suggests.  More than a few people seemed very taken aback by the quality of sound from this speaker, including myself.  Big, bold, rich presentation with detailed but not harsh mids.  Didn't have that last few ounce of microdynamic life/detail, especially in treble, compared to Ref 3, but hey..
I will soon be seeking some of these Rockets to go with my newly-won 250 Mk II...

VR4Jr vs. Ref 3

Fundamentally different speakers, and it was clear the designers of both had pretty different priorities.  For most of the listening, Ref 3 did have a thick midbass that didn't extend into low bass, which was warm and pleasant but detracting from speed and attack.  Even then, the midrange/treble was really seductive.  Some people were saying they heard some glare in treble and too much detail perhaps.  However, I believe the treble just tended to reveal what's fed.  It had that rare combination of great detail, extremely fine gradations/microdynamics, yet not overly bright.  You could really resolve treble info hidden deep in the mix.  VR4Jr treble sounded almost crude in comparison (but it actually has very good treble of its own!).

Midrange was the involving, engaging kind with layers of texture and nuance.  Natural flow and smoothness was very apparent.  I can imagine some people preferring a more upfront, brighter midrange (say, lovers of Watt/Puppy 3 or B & W 800 sig), but this was settle-down-in-hometown type of mids that draws you in.

Late in the evening, we did screw on the spikes on Ref3, and the speaker changed dramatically.  Those still around looked at each other and said, "this is a different speaker."  To be optimal, the bases have to be loaded with lead shot, which wasn't done, but even just with spikes, the midbass tightened up significantly and bass extension/speed improved.  This also led to improved attack/speed of midrange on up.  A more precise, focused, dynamic speaker emerged with the good midrange/treble qualities intact.  

I can't say this will be your last speaker, but one would help himself greatly by auditioning one.

VR4Jr had its own strengths.  As with most of Dr. Von Schweikert designs, the bass was tight, impactful, extended.  Even with Ref 3 spiked, I believe VR4 went lower in extension.  VR didn't have the warm midbass of Ref 3, and many felt the midbass was too lean in comparison.  However, in order to optimize the VR, it is strongly recommended to use lead shot.  Still, a very agile, powerfully tight, "Impressive" bass.  

Midrange was very good.  Exciting, fast, open type of midrange with sharper image outlines compared to Ref3.  A bit more forward and brighter then Ref3's.  I can see some folks preferring this type of mids, but I myself prefer the more exquisitely textured, involving midrange of Ref3.

Treble is where I had most trouble with VR4.  As good as that soft dome tweeter is, it has a couple of small rough peaks (only in comparison), which made certain sounds in upper-mid/low-treble a bit harsher sometimes.  But after a certain point, the treble rolled off like a rock, thereby not delivering that feathery air in high treble.  Also, the brighter treble peaks were more "noticeable" in VR, but the subtle details were more noticeable via Ref3 tweeters.  Don't get me wrong, the overall treble of VR is still excellent, just not in same league as Ring radiator + ribbon.

Speaker preference remains a very personal one, and I won't say if you prefer A over B, you are "Wrong."  

Palladium II monoblocks

Oldie but goodie.  Every time I hear these, I wanna get a pair.  They make no gross mistakes and avoid SS sterility totally.  It's one of those components that builds sound "from bottom up."  Laying down strong and rich bass foundation, then building a warm inviting midrange, then filling out the treble naturally.   All this while maintaining good detail (though not the very best detail) and moving along with sure-footedly confidence and pace (though not a "fast" sounding amp).  What's not to like?

Rowland 201

Better, perhaps quite a bit better, detail than Palladiums.  Also sounds like a "fast" amp.  No problem with lightening transients and pace.  High level of detail does not come at expense of peakyness or roughness.  The sound is extremely smooth and even.  Do not imagine "digititus" just b/c it's a digital amp.  

However, I feel it's an amp that builds the sound from "top down."  Focus/foundation seems to start in the (wonderful) treble, then to the neutral midrange (which is a tad bit lean in low-midrange), then fills out the bass.  Bass is very well controlled, extended, and super fast.  But it just didn't have the massive weight and warmth of other amps such as Palladium and Son of Ampzilla.  I realize many will prefer this kind of sound over the "warm" school, but I happen to like warmth...

A couple of people commented they weren't as "involving," but couldn't give specific reasons.  I myself couldn't believe the 180 degree turn in sonic signature Rowlands amps have made from the old amps.  

Son of Ampzilla

Strangely, the Godzilla amp sounded most like a tube amp.  Very warm, round tonality from bass to treble.  Bass had great weight and richness while not lacking control.  Midrange had that bit of bloom and roundness good tubes have, and treble was smooth and bloomy.  Nicely filled-out sound top to bottom.  My only complaint was just a slight bit less obvious detail in midrange, just an ounce of that microdynamic/detail.  I'm sure this was an unavoidable tradeoff to achieve that easy, glowing, bloom in the sound.  Once again, in a sympathetic system, this amp has the potential to "beat" the others mentioned.  I'm thinking a system that has bags of detail but a bit on the speedy/lean side of neutral.

Pass X250

In retrospect, I have the least to say about sonic signature of this amp.  This amp kind of splits the difference among these other amps and toe the line of perceived "neutrality" most closely.  Very very nice bass response, the best of the group IMO.  Very taut and fast AND warm/rich bass.  Mid and treble basically sounded linear and flat.  Detail was good and smooth.  This is the kind of amp that doesn't shout, "Listen to me!"  I can also see how some people would label this amp not very "special."  Many would sit up and take notice when they hear something like Rowland and Son of Ampzilla, as each has a distinct, unique sound.  But I think Pass is an amp you can put in the system, forget about it and trust it to be close to neutral, and build the system around it.  Pass especially synergized well with VR4Jr more than with Ref3.  Great bass filling out VR's midbass, and the smooth mid/treble taking iron-grip control over the VR's mid/treble.  

I myself Require a bit more "color" in my amp, not in pursuit of neutrality but more in pursuit of personal satisfaction.  Oh, well, that's why I use a 300B push-pull triode amp...

-------------------------------------------------------------
Upstairs System

A couple of us burned the midnight oil upstairs.  Putting on the Eichman power cord on Onix CD-1 CDP significantly improved the overall sound compared to earlier in the day.

Selah SA-1 vs. Ref 1

Selah's treble was more refined, had more subtlety, and still quite detailed.  I think most will prefer this treble to Ref 1, though some will prefer the more upfront, more dynamic treble of Ref1.

Midrange on both were very nice.  Once again, Selah had a more relaxed, natural, laid-back feel to it.  Ref 1 seemed a bit more cleaner in mids.  Some of this is due to Selah's lowe-midrange to upper-bass area, which was a bit warmer (or less controlled if you will).  Preferences again.

Bass.  Ref 1 had tighter, punchier, cleaner bass.  Selah's bass had more calories but not quite as controlled, at least fed by the onix tube integrated.  

Both are playing in similar levels of performance, and I think rolling tubes to cater to each speaker will result in even better match for both.

Onix H34 tube integrated amp

I loved the finish and look of this amp.  I believe this is like $1295, and it looks like it costs a lot more.  The sound reminded me of the old AudioPrism Debut amps (aka Red Rose amps), which it should as both use EL 34 in push-pull.  BUT the Onix had much better bass quantity and impact than I remember the AudioPrism having.  Onix also sounded very powerful on all speakers tried.  

Compared to multi-kilobuck amps, it did lack that last degree of detail and image density, but more than made up by its fun, ebullient, sparkly bloom.  Midrange had that "tube magic" in spades.  Looks like it uses some GE 6922, GE 5751, some 6SN7's and EL34's I couldn't see through the cage.  I can see dropping a few choice NOS tubes in this baby and upsetting the balance of the universe

 

Onix CD-1

A player I will definitely keep an eye on.  I don't think it's on the website yet, but it should be ASAP.  Great analogue-like sound with bold, confident sound with some real bass sock and weight.  No digititus of any kind yet quite detailed.  It will be interesting to A-B this CDP against the likes of Shanling, Consonance, etc.  Did I mention Onix is not a tubed CDP?  Stay tuned.  

I need to go to sleep as I'm working in AM, but I'm sure others will chime in...

[Jon L]

Mad Dog, I left those ERS sheets at your place.  I'm retrieve them at one of those LAOC Audio Society meetings..

[zybar]

Great comments guys, keep them coming.

George

[StevenACNJ]

Some more comments & nice pcs can be found over at the AV123.com forum

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?s=56e4ed9287c9989cb1bd2301bfc431af&threadid=4751

[shokunin]

The upstairs system which consisted of the Rockets 250MKII's, Selah Audio SA-1's, and the Onix Ref 1's.  I was a bit late and didn't get to hear the Rockets, when I arrived the SA-1's were playing.  The Onix CD-1 was the source and the Onix H34 integrated tube amp was running these monitors.  Both of the Onix pieces were quite nice, especially the tube amp, was smooth, and extended and powered these monitors with authority.

I thought Selah Audio was a great speaker, especially for the price Rick is charging.  I think Mad Dog said thse were $850 speakers, unbelievable.   We compared the Onix Ref 1's against the Selah Audio, the bass Selah audio went deep, just a tad loose and also had a bit of midbass warmth to it.  There was gobs of detail in the treble and the midrange was nice and rich, but could use a bit of tweaking to get it a more coherent between the woofer and the tweeter.   However, the speakers we were listening to had the "standard" crossover.  I'm not sure what performance improvements could be had with the better crossover that Rick provides for $100 more.  

In comparison to Ref 1's, the Ref's had less detail, was not as extended in both extremes, but did things right throughout the band.  The bass transitions on the Ref's were not as weighty or noticeable than the Selah's.

[Mad DOg]

Mad Dog, I left those ERS sheets at your place.  I'm retrieve them at one of those LAOC Audio Society meetings..

i noticed...  

[Mad DOg]

man, i'm still beat from friday and sat...what a blast!!!

first of all, i want to thank MLS for taking the time to out of his busy schedule to join us...then i'd like to thank him for hosting the dinner on Friday nite...and finally, i'd like to thank him for the wonderful giveaways that made so the lucky winners SOOOO happy!

Mark, THANK YOU!

secondly, i'd like to thank Shokunin. this is THE man who made much of this session possible...without his willingness to share his gear with us all, i know i wouldn't have the knowledge and experience with the wide variety of gear that i now have...he has allowed me to experience the differences the following types of products have in the audio chain...power conditioning, tubes, digital sources, amplifiers, cabling...this time he provided some of the best amps for us to experiment with...and folding chairs to sit on...and the Shunyata Hydra6

THANK YOU, Shokunin! You're the greatest!!! and it was great to see you again!

Thirdly, i'd like to thank John for bringing out the BPT 3.5 and Son Of Ampzilla for us to audition!

Fourthly, i'd like to thank rttrek for taking care of those small details that make all the difference in the world. printing up customized name tags...bringing folding chairs so the attendees had a place to sit...helping with the restaurant choice.

THANK YOU, rttrek! great to see you again as well. Glad you were able to make it this time...

then i'd like to thank Hugh for providing the krispy kreme donuts, Rustaffarian for the folding chairs, Noel Nolan from Skylan for sending down the rack and donating the giveaway Magic Mushrooms, Mike Garner from Cryotweaks for donating 4 of his excellent Cryotweaks Digital cables to the giveaway (GREAT BANG FOR BUCK cable)...

FINALLY, i need to thank my wonderful wife for being such a great sport in allowing me to host these sessions. she is just great...

hopefully, i haven't left anyone who deserves credit out...if i have, i sincerely apologize...

as always, it was great to see the familiar faces and meet the new ones...

thanks everyone for making this an amazing event!!!

[Mad DOg]

ok...there were no winners or losers out of all the gear we auditioned!

i'd agree w/ pretty much everything shokunin and jon l shared already...neither the ref3 or vr-4jrs were optimized w/ mass loading or spiking for ease of moving speakers around so please take these impressions as just that...both Kevin from VSA and Mark from AV123 said that their speakers benefit greatly from mass loading and installing the spikes. bass on what we heard at the end of the session when jon l, shokunin, sa-dono, and cryotweaks heard, installing the spikes on the ref 3s greatly tranformed them...i would expect the same to occur with the excellent VR4jrs...

regarding the amps...folks, it all boils down to synergy... the 4jrs worked well with the Pass and probably would've worked well w/ the SofA...the Ref 3s worked well the Palladium IIs, SofA and Rowlands...yes, there were differences, but they've been covered very articulately by the shokunin and JonL...i'm just gonna stay on the sidelines and recuperate...

[John Casler]

First and foremost, I have to thank Mad Dog and his "Master of Mad Dog" for such a great meet.  While it was certainly a "schlup" (almost 2 hours) to get there it was most certainly worth it. (every bumper to bumper inch )

I went to the Friday Night dinner with Mark Shifter and about 20 plus others and it too was a great time.  Met a lot of really nice people and of course talked audio along with Margeritas, and Mexican food.

Mark is a one man Dynamo who is constantly moving and working on the future of the industry.  It was certainly great to see and talk to him about some of the projects he (and we)  will be doing shortly.

After dinner, Sa-Dono, Mad Dog, MD's wife and I went back to MD's house for some pre-set up and listening.

Strangely enough, when we first compared the BPT 3.5 Signature to the Hydra, the Hydra was felt much better.  I thought that was strange since they should have been closer.

It was difficult for me to hear the problems MD and SD were describing since it was on a new system, room and with unfamiliar cuts, but I did hear a "thiness" to the sound, which generally is not there.

But we didn't consider that the BPT had been "unplugged" for 24 hours and was an "active" device, compared to the Hydra which is more passive.

Leaving the 3.5 plugged in over night made all the difference.

In the end, I felt that both the Hydra and the 3.5 added "qualities" to the overall sound, although one cannot 'discount" audio qualities of the Office Depot power center they replaced    

These will be offerd soon by Mad Dog Audio at a "paltry" $999.99

First "Big Surprise"....

My first big Surprise was the great Selah Audio speakers.  I have to say that Rick has created and assembled a quality sounding stand mounted speaker for this price category.  As a VMPS dealer, I like ribbons.  I also have an entry level of $1598 (for the 626R) , so when someone wants a great ribbon for less than $1000 I don't have product.

Rick's speaker is an excellent candidate for that price range.  I beleive MD said it was $850.

As far as sound, I can only compare it to the Ref Ones and of course my Reference 626R, both over $1500...Is it as good?  No, but at its price it does many of the same thing very well.

The Selah played a bit lower then the Ref Ones and might even have approached the 626Rs.  The deepest bass however was just slightly rubbery.  Now this might not have been the speaker totally, since it was being powered by a tube amp (a good one I might add) and it was in a "very tough" almost square, "untreated for bass" room.

Additionally it was only the "very lowest" bass that seemed affected.  Funny enough, during one of the cuts, I joked with MD that he and I should stand in the front corners and act as human bass traps.  I walked up and stood in the right corner and Dave Clark of Positive Feedback Online immediatly said it made a difference.  MD then stood in the other corner, and we then were "stuck" there until the end of the cut.

So if any of you are "stuck" for bass traps, just stick a couple of your friends in the corners    

As far as highs, the single ribbon tweeter of the Selah's was very good and not at all like a couple other two way offerings I have heard in the past.  It was detailed and clean and passed all my "tests".  It only lacked the "very highest" of frequencies but still had enough to allow me to hear most of the music in that area.

I might also mention that I did get a chance to run through a good portion of my reference material before others began to arrive so I have a fairly good idea of the speaker.  But I also have to temper this with, the fact that it was in a strange room and a unfamiliar system (which sounded great by the way) so your mileage may be better or worse depending on your parameters.

But in any event, this is in a price range that isn't frequented with this type of performance.

Good Speaker Rick!

Surpise number 2....

Surprise Number 2 was the Rocket 550.  To be perfectly frank I have never really (I mean really) heard the Rocket Speakers.  Surely I have heard them played, but not where I have been able to A/B them with other speakers and with familiar cuts.

This is one "smokin" speaker and once again in the $1000 price range.  While it certainly was not the match of the VR-Jr, and Ref 3, it certainly was biting them in the shorts at the finish line.

Deep Quality Bass, Totally Satisfying Midrange and Adequate Highs and it "did not" sound the least bit strained at high volumes.

Did I mention that it also "sports" the MLS cabinets?

For a $1K floor stander, it can "rock your World".

This is one speaker value.


AMP Champ.....

Well as far as the Champ of the amps, I am not prepared to (nor qualified as a owner/dealer for one of the competitors) to offer a decision.

That said, I can offer some impressions, also compared to what I have heard on my system.

First, in a shoot out like this, with a large room and speakers in the 88/89 db efficiency range, the Father of Ampzilla would have probably offered a more direct Apples to Apples comparison, since the SoA is only around 100 watts, with the other amps in the 250 - 300wpc range.

That said, how did the comparison turn out?

Well as most have said, the JR201's are very special amps, but the presentation is "very" different than the AMPzilla offering.

The JR201 is spectacular in its presentation.  It has the precise quality of sound as that of HDTV.  As such it has "extreme detail" PLUS.  Now this seems to come at the expense of a balanced spectrum.  Although I cannot say that it was in any way "lacking" in bass extension or HF extension, it seemed to not have the "fluid color" of sound.

Now this is not a bad quality, expecially on the right speakers.  For example on the VR-Jr's it might not sound as good as it will on the Ref 3's, since the Jr's are more dry and analytical than the Refs.  This might have made them "overly" etched and dry.

In contrast the Pass and the AMPzilla's would be better suited for the VR4 Jrs and speakers of more detail. (I know how good they sound on VMPS)

I would probably mate the 201 with Vandersteens and speakers of that type.  

I do think they mated well with the Ref 3s, but there is another quality that serious listening will also bring out.  That quality is depth (of field)

The SoA and depth.

With a few serious listening sessions, I have found that the SoA sounds "richer", more colorful, and what some might call "tube like" or warm.  Now this can be a problem if mated with a "warm" or Dark speaker.

But with the right speaker, this quality will present you with the quality of "depth" (of field) which means that you don't have a "sharp edged but flat" digital picture in 2D, but a detailed 3D image with "clear and defined,  but rounded" images more similar to reality.

This of course, is a "perception" and subject to many outside factors such as room, set up, treatment and associated equipment.

The illusion of this property can also be acheived in an "untreated" room by allowing the "reflected sound" to soften the edges and fill in the backside of the "3-D" effect.  I don't like this method since it depends on room manufactured sonics and can give false images.

Now some present might have heard "softening of detail" when we switched to the AMPzilla, but having had experience with the amp in a more intimate setting that is acoustically damped, I can ssure you that the perception was due to room, and the contrast of going directly from the razor sharp detail of the JR's.

This again points out that the equipment, speaker, room inter-relationship should be well considered when selecting an amp.

If I had to sum the amps up in a few words, I would say:

JR201:

X-tremely Detailed, dynamic, tight bass, crystal highs, clean, and clear

Son of AMPzilla :

3D soundstage and depth, Full Frequency Spectrum, Tubelike, excellent Timbre and Tonally accurate, Smooth/Listenable and non-fatiguing


Now obviously you can see I am "pro-ampzilla" which is why I selected the amp for my system, and is in no way to be construed with negative thoughts about the JR's.  I felt the JR's were very impressive and strangely enough had a "VERY" different presentation.  My preferences, ran with the SoA, but the JR's could be equally satisfying with the right combinations.

Shokunin and I will be performing further comparisons with his 201's and my 626R's in my room and system.  When we do, we'll report those results also.

And finally the VR4 Jr's (lot's of Sons and Jr's at this meet) and the Ref 3s

Plain and simple, I personally found the Ref 3s a slightly better speaker (to my preferences) and more engaging in most every area.  The Jr's were much like the JR's (201) in that they were detailed, and highly contrasted (read dynamic)

The Ref threes, were more natural, warm, 3-D and had a more controlled bass with greater depth, in this room and system.

I have to temper these remarks by stating that both of these speakers are "wonderful" in both of their strengths and display few weaknesses overall.

That said, I did hear some bass distortion in the Jr's (which was surprising in light of their "punchy" (read high impact) nature)

The richness and full body of the Ref 3 was apparent in cut after cut, even at rather high SPL's

I am not a fan of "rear firing" ambience tweeters (like those found on the Jr's, which are defeatable by the way) and actually find them anti-audiophile, but some of the best speakers and desingers in the world have used (or still do) them at some time or other.  They would be useless in my system or any LEDE room for obvious reasons.

In all fairness, it should be mentioned that neither speaker was fully "weighted" or spiked, which could have had the potential to contribute a better performance overall and particulalry to the bass detail and depth.

But at the end of the day, I would have like to have "bi-amped" the Ref 3's with the AMPzilla on top and the Aragons on the bottom and been totally blown away!!!!!

Mad Dog, are you hearing what JAC is cookin'???    

(no not "smokin"...cookin')

Hey Everyone, thanks for making this the best meet ever, and a special thanks to Mark Schifter for taking time out of his busy schedule to meet with everyone, and provide such great door prizes.

It is always such a pleasure for me to engage people like Mark, James Bongiorno, and Brian of course, who dedicate themselves to creating, and developing such great products, then adding their own particular magic to the mix.  It is truly something special

Also thanks to Noel (SKYLAN) and Mike (Cryotweaks) for also conributing the Rack (for the upstairs system), the Magic Mushrooms and Interconnects!!!!!!

SHHHHHHWWWWEEEET

[John Casler]

Mad Dog, I left those ERS sheets at your place.  I'm retrieve them at one of those LAOC Audio Society meetings..

i noticed...  

Krikkee!!!!!

I also left "ALL" my cables, connectors, and Reference discs (thought I put that box in the car)

Now I have to wait for UPS

[shauk786]

I would like to give my heart felt thanks to the mad dog and his master for the great hospitality and especially the opportunity to audition such magnificent equipments and speakers. especially meeting Mark was truly an honor as well as all the folks that were present.

thanks a lot, maddog

Shaukat

[Craig Chase]

John Casler... As a long time VMPS follower, I have seen your name around high end audio for years (I also am a past owner of Tower II SE's, SuperTower's and Larger Subwoofers). You have always been one of the "good guys", bringing great products to the real world!... It was great to get to read your highly qualified points of view regarding all the products at the GTG ...

Great catch on the Rocket 550's performance... well said on your part, too ! (if you don't mind my saying so... )

I would LOVE to hear what you and MLS have in store... sounds VERY intriguing !

Warmest Regards

[dave clark]

I would like to thank Fo for a great time (and his undestanding wife) on Saturday. It was fun listening to the various system configurations and then hearing the responses from the crowd in attendance. Really nice to be in an environment where so many people reacted differently, yet respected those differences! How refreshing.
Would also like to say I enjoyed meeting some new people and hope that we run into each other again soon.
All of this took me back to when Carol and I ran the GSBAS (now LAOC) and had 30-40 people at our home several times a year to do just what Fo did last Saturday. Lots of work! But fun just the same!
Nice seeing Mark again (he did a meeting many a year ago for the GSBAS with Audio Alchemy) and so this was like deja vue all over again. Best amp was the SOA - a real deal and steal. Will see ablut getting the monos for review....
I may open my house to a few in the new future, would be fun to just hang out and listen for pleasure and not for work!!
Thanks again!
Dave Clark

[John Casler]

John Casler... As a long time VMPS follower, I have seen your name around high end audio for years (I also am a past owner of Tower II SE's, SuperTower's and Larger Subwoofers). You have always been one of the "good guys", bringing great products to the real world!... It was great to get to read your highly qualified points of view regarding all the products at the GTG ...

Great catch on the Rocket 550's performance... well said on your part, too ! (if you don't mind my saying so... )

I would LOVE to hear what you and MLS have in store... sounds VERY intriguing !

Warmest Regards

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the Kudos. (Maybe I better look up that word before using it)

Yes it is always nice to find little audio gems at an affordable level and the Selah stand mount and the Rocket 550 floor standers are such products.  I might add that the little integrated tube amp which I did not have time to report on was also "incredible".

As far as MLS and VMPS, both Mark and Brian have many things in the fire.  Our first venture was to move up to the now world standard in speaker cabinets that MLS produces.  We are currently waiting for a few other blocks to fall into place to maybe team up in some other areas.

Mark is a pleasure to work with and a gentleman to be sure.  If everything goes as planned, I think we might have a few "tricks up our sleeve" to present to you all.

At this moment, Big B is developing a technology that should "change things" in speaker design, which may at some point involve MLS.  Let me tell you this technology promises to once again "do the deed".  Wish I could say more, but I cannot.

Mark also has some "VERY BIG" surprises coming out of his endevours.

The cooperation of these two Giants could light the way for High End Audio and HT for the next several years.    

I wish I could say more, but it is too premature to do so.   Many of these technologies have to remain undisclosed until the Intellectual Property is properly filed.

But do remember, Mark has paved the way for several developments that are finally reaching fulfilment.  Brian has "always" been 10 years ahead of everyone else in his designs.

It looks more of the same, but BIGGER.

[JoshK]

Guys,

What a great read!  Thanks for the wrap up, I was eager to hear your guys' analysis.    Oddly, or not oddly, enough, your guys' description of the differences between the SOA and the JR's is very much like how I described, or how I would describe the differences between the ASKA 100 N+ and my Spectron Musician II.   If interested read my comments in the US tour thread on the Aspen audio circle.

I have heard it before that all SS technology bumps the mid bass a bit, not sure if this is true or not but I've heard it said.  The Spectron and other digital amps I have heard definitely don't by comparison bump the mid bass.  They tend to be leaner in the mid bass than tube amps or SS amps that I have heard.  The bass can be construed to be leaner by this fact, but I think it is more accurate, tighter and deeper.  Tighter sometimes sounds leaner.  Even if this were 100% true to the source it is much easier for me to like a bit more mid bass warmth, hump if you will.  If this is a color, I like the color.  Which is right?  Who knows?  I don't really think it matters, I think what matters is determining what you like, prefer and want to live with.

[KeithR]

Interesting amp shootout results....they concur with my feelings toward the Rowlands to a "T."