new phono section or new player

lcrim · « **on:** 9 Sep 2004, 08:34 pm »

A short time back I was hot to get a new TT, arm, and cart but after a lot of research maybe a better phono section would provide a bigger jump in performance.
My 2 channel system is mostly tubes but it seems that many of the better phono sections are solid state, the tube based units tend to be a bit noisier in general. Of course as quality (and price) rise, noise decreases. Anybody know of a real gem phono section in the $600 range?
Thanks in advance.

jcoat007 · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Sep 2004, 10:37 pm »

check this out:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preaphon&1099457799

lcrim · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Sep 2004, 02:04 am »

The EAR834P has many admirers, I see that you have one as well. What do you think of it?

JoshK · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Sep 2004, 02:28 pm »

Are you adverse to DIY? It seems as though the best results in this price camp are in the DIY universe sadly. Might have a look at the Hagerman Cornet kit.

lcrim · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Sep 2004, 05:52 pm »

I've made IC's and soldered obviously broken connections but never tried anything as complicated as the Cornet must surely be. I don't know if that would be a good kit to start with.

michael w · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Sep 2004, 02:45 am »

What's your existing table/arm/cartridge/phono stage ?

lcrim · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Sep 2004, 03:25 am »

Rega Planar 3 TT, SME 3009 Series III tonearm, Goldring 1012 GX Cartridge, ASL Mini phono section

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Sep 2004, 07:46 pm »

Quote from: lcrim

Rega Planar 3 TT, SME 3009 Series III tonearm, Goldring 1012 GX Cartridge, ASL Mini phono section

The TT is the weak link in your setup.

Carlman · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Sep 2004, 09:08 pm »

I've heard the Goldring 1042 compared to others and it wasn't bad but I didn't care for the highs. I think the 1012 might actually be better in the highs from others I've spoken to... In any case, I decided I like the sound of moving coil carts much more than magnets, though... and went with a Dynavector 10x5. I'm using a Bugle phono preamp that sound very nice also.

The table and arm you have are very good. I think the cartridge you have is likely a good match but could be better depending on the type of sound you want.

If I were in your shoes, I'd try something like a Dynavector or other MC cartridge, see if you like that change... and then start moving to the next component to make improvements. I'd consider rewiring your tonearm also... Then move to the preamp... and try some different ones... and lastly point to the table for more improvement.

That's my pennies...

-C

Rocket · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 08:47 am »

Hi,

Your turntable is fine AFAIK.

I don't know anything about the goldring range of cartridges except they have a good reputation. Carlman, has had one so his advice would be better than mine.

I think a good quality phonostage might be the answer. How good is the ASL phonostage? Any opinions?

If you could afford $1000us you could buy a fully finished cornet.

regards

rocket

JoshK · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 12:50 pm »

I'd upgrade the cart first, if it were me. A Dynavector is what I went up to after owning a Goldring 1012 and a 1042. Big step up, bigger than a TT upgrade IMO.

Make sure you have appropriate basing for your table, be it a sand box, isolation platform, massive stand, or whatever. This is very important to getting the most of your current setup, no matter what that setup is. Without getting the appropriate foundation, upgrades aren't as beneficial as they ought to be.

lcrim · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 02:35 pm »

First thank you all for your advice.
I bought the Rega Planar 3 just over a year ago from an older gent in the midwest. The SME tonearm was setup with a Benz Micro MC20E2 hi-output MC. At the time I didn't realize that the arm was missing the anti-skating mechanism (restored recently), I was just so happy with the sound.
Last winter, I put together another system based on a Decware Select (SET) amp and Parker 95 MKII speakers and began using the Rega in that system. I replaced the phono section from a very basic solid state Rotel unit with the Antique Sound Labs unit and the improvement was distinct, more detail, treble extension, PRAT.
Kevin Barrett from KAB was kind enough to professionally set up the arm and suggested the Goldring. The improvement in sound quality through professional help with setup was on the order of a component upgrade.
I added the AES preamp and suddenly I had sufficient gain so that the music was dynamic.
Recently I added a modded Toshiba 3950 for Redbook to this system, revealing the true quality of the amp/speaker combo- I was awestruck by the detail available on well recorded 16 bit CD.
Unfortunately, you don't know what you've been missing until you hear how good it can be and now I want the analog source to at least measure up to the digital. Analog hardware seems to be about the priciest area in hi-end sound that I've encountered. But I think maybe my initial setup has served its purpose and its time to pass it on and step up.

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Sep 2004, 02:58 pm »

I would go back to Kevin and see what he recommends....

It probably will be all new stuff, including phono pre....

SteveRB · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Sep 2004, 01:19 am »

don't discount the hagerman cornet2 so quickly. i built it as my first diy. with a little practice soldering it works pretty much like a paint-by-number. i reccomend reading up on the different commponets (ie. capacitors, resistors, diodes) before you tackel that specifc section and the AC message board is great for help

but as long as you have patients and a steady hand the results are astounding.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Sep 2004, 01:48 am »

Quote from: lcrim

Kevin Barrett from KAB was kind enough to professionally set up the arm and suggested the Goldring. The improvement in sound quality through professional help with setup was on the order of a component upgrade.
....

Seems like you'r going to end with a KAB modded 1200...

Seriously, you're not going to believe the difference between the Creature on steroids and the Rega. It's going to feel like music was played in slow motion.

It's possible to make analog and digital come real close to each other. I've done it...

lcrim · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 05:53 pm »

Last night after work I picked up a demo unit from Kevin. It is an older 1200 MKII w/ all the KAB mods-tonearm dampener, separate power supply, upgraded IC's and record clamp are included. He installed a Goldring 1012 since I had that on the Rega/ SME unit which is temporarily attached to the HT system.
I woke up this morning early and the cart got some break in time going around on the run out at the end of "Kind of Blue" last night. Everything was still running and every light was still on. So my early impressions are a bit hazy.
The Technics weighs a ton and all the controls work with a precision that Mercedes would envy. All the rest of the system is the same albeit with a less broken in cartridge. The thing that struck me most about the playback was how truer the instruments sounded and clarity and detail made quantum leaps. Surface noise is still present and maybe stands out a bit more because the recreation of the original event is so good that it pisses me off that my records are so flawed. I may post more on this unit but my feelings are very positive.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Sep 2004, 05:07 pm »

If you want to get the most out of the deck make sure the spindle is oiled all the way to the top. Technic's recommendation of every 2000 hrs doesn't cut it. It keeps the bottom oiled, but there's a tremendous gain in performance when there's oil all the way to the top.

Carlman · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Sep 2004, 06:48 pm »

What kind of oil do you use to lube the spindle? I need to do this to my Pro-Ject but I'm not sure what to use... I'm surprised there's not an 'audiophile' grade oil... but I was going to use Singer sewing machine oil.

-C

lcrim · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Sep 2004, 02:48 am »

I'm keeping the evaluation unit. Kevin made me an unbelievably nice deal for it. Somewhere down the line, I can see a cartridge and phono section upgrade but I'm very pleased with the sound for now.
I stopped into Princeton Record Exchange last Sunday and found, among other things, The Tony Bennet, Bill Evans Album. The record is unfortunately very scratchy but Tony Bennet can sing. I never realized how much power Tony has-great stuff.

Give Kevin a call re: oil, Carl.