[jhrlrd]

I have a silver circle 5.0 conditioner. All the outlets are ganged together by design, so when I plug in the components they are essentially on the same outlet.
I'm not having a specific problem, but is there a reasonable way to isolate the digital front end from the power amp? like a plug in isolation unit.
Any experience with something like this? thanks

[Folsom]

You could consider attenuating noise closer to the DAC, than at the Silver Circle, which is a transformer BTW. What DAC?

You could re-do the wiring in star configuration, inside the Silver Circle. Also outlets that are ground isolated can be used to make sure the star ground is true.

[jhrlrd]

The star config sounds intriguing but I'm not entirely sure how. Would it entail some de-coupling caps? Is there a link to illustrate execution?
I looked at the modded Audience thread, but it still looks like it has a common buss. Do the caps isolate each outlet?
BTW, it's a Modwrwight/ASi/OPPO105

[Folsom]

Star configuration means that all wires instead of being connected in a daisy, go to the same bus. It's not radically different, but it does change a few aspects.

Changing to star pattern ground and isolated sockets is largely a loop prevention, but may have some influence on noise (can't tell you that you'd hear it, I do it loop and attenuation reasons).

You could use capacitors to help attenuate some noise. With the transformer, you're probably better off placing them at the inlet to the transformer, and close to the equipment. The higher the AC impedance, the more the capacitor will do. THAT impedance will be higher the farther from a transformer you get (on the secondary side) because inductance will increase.

If you don't understand AC well, I'd have someone else do any modifications.

[Big Red Machine]

I have a silver circle 5.0 conditioner. All the outlets are ganged together by design, so when I plug in the components they are essentially on the same outlet.
I'm not having a specific problem, but is there a reasonable way to isolate the digital front end from the power amp? like a plug in isolation unit.
Any experience with something like this? thanks

So generally the unit functions well but you are concerned you might have noise or are you actually getting noise that you know of?  I'm interested in your opinion of the Silver Circle gear.  I believe the Audience units, for instance, add more filtering to the "digital" outlets.  Along the lines Salis is mentioning.

[Folsom]

One fellow compared a conditioner of mine to his Haley Springs, basically similar to the Silver Circle. He ended up preferancing mine, and I'm telling you this just because my topology is in the vein of Audience's. In other words, there's something of value found within filtration that also provides some isolation coincidentally and not coincidentally via attenuation and reactive components. Well, it would seem.

You can of coarse believe a nay-sayer that capacitors and inductors are evil.... Or trust that people buying Audience units aren't just on some placebo kick. I also trust the super rich guys at 6moons who review for fun, and have been very favourable.

Audience units may use more capacitence for a digital outlet, but don't use better (appropriate) chokes (for a few reasons). The only digital specific sizing I've seen is Bybee purifiers. Sometimes people have isolated ground sockets for digital.

[jtwrace]

I personally would like to try the Waveform Fidelity conditioner.  Also, the AudioQuest unit seems interesting too.  Then again my $1,000 UberBuss works really well. 

[Folsom]

I personally would like to try the Waveform Fidelity conditioner.  Also, the AudioQuest unit seems interesting too.  Then again my $1,000 UberBuss works really well.

Another in a similar vein. In fact, I feel I could confidently say it'll be good. Go for it.

[jtwrace]

Another in a similar vein. In fact, I feel I could confidently say it'll be good. Go for it.

Which? Waveform?  I don't know the topology but with Paul being an E.E. & audiophile I'd like to try it.  Maybe he'll see this thread/post and comment.  The dude knows his $hit.

[Folsom]

Which? Waveform?  I don't know the topology but with Paul being an E.E. & audiophile I'd like to try it.  Maybe he'll see this thread/post and comment.  The dude knows his $hit.

Yes, it's called the Alchemist Power Conditioner.

[jtwrace]

Yes, it's called the Alchemist Power Conditioner.

Oh, I thought the name changed of the conditioner with the name change of the company.  Guess not. 

[Folsom]

I dunno, I think he's too busy making nice cables so there's no website with all the answers. Well, that can be searched for...

[stehno]

@jhrlrd, well, to the contrary you do have a problem that you seem to be hinting at.  Anything digital induces a bi-directional noise that continues forward in the AC current and signal processing as well as carrying that noise backwards, back into the AC, back into the wall, and some claim even as far back as the service panel and that digital noise will induce some sonic harm into all other circuits and components.

The only way to cure this bi-directional digital noise is proper line conditioning (AC filtering) on all your components.  Or if you only have one line conditioner you could attach your digital component to it, but it will only benefit the other components if your line conditioner is bi-directional filtering, meaning it successfully prevents the generated digital noise from going backwards back into the AC lines.

The problem with attaching multiple digital components to a single line conditioner is that now all the bi-directional digital noise generated by each component will induce its harm on all the digital components at the same line conditioner.  And if the line conditioner is not bi-directional filtering will go out into the AC outlet and infect your other components.

Regrettably, most line condtioners are not bi-directional filtering.

Your best bet to maximize your minimums or minimize your maximums with current purchases only is to put all of your analog gear on your one line conditioner, hopefully having its own dedicated circuit/line and then have a seperate circuit/line for each and every digital component with the hope of minimizing any infiltration.  However, if your amps are high current drawing and you're sharing that one circuit/line with all your analog gear (assuming your amps are analog, not digital), then you run the risk of your other analog gear robbing much needed AC juice for the high-current drawing amps, hence you could easily flatten dynamic and/or complex music passages and thus rob some of the magic from your music.  Even if you don't listen all that loudly.

There are proper solutions here, but they all require some investment. 

IMO, proper AC / electrical mgmt is the second biggest culprit of inducing serious distortions into your system.  Noisy AC is far more of a problem than just digital noise but both should be addressed properly and that can only be reasonably done by purchasing passive, dedicated, and bi-directional line conditioners that actually condition/filter the noisy AC (most don't and some induce their own sonic harm).  If you went this route then you should only need a single dedicated circuit/line for your amp. As the lesser AC current drawing components could probably all share one dedicated circuit/line.  Assuming your line conditioners are doing their job properly.

Jena Labs makes a fabulous line conditioner called The One.  I've compared The One to my Foundation Research line conditioners I've always considered the best in the business.  And with Jena Labs present in my listening room, I had to confess The One was ever so slightly more musical.

Hope this helps,

[Folsom]

http://www.jenalabs.com/ac-products/sequoia-2011.html

It's a CLCLCLCLCLCLCL.

It's comprised of capacitors and ferrite beads (inductor). The ferrite beads are the same as a "coil" if you want to use laymen terms. It's also the most expensive set of capacitors I've ever seen.

Personally I'm not big on ferrite beads. Cores? Sure, beads, meh.

stehno,

There's some terms to use here.

First you have common mode noise generated often by digital equipment and other smaller equipment. It can come from multiple sources, but a lot comes from small transformers that lack the insulation to prevent stray capacitance between windings. It also happens inherently from some induction that occurs. It's strange to think about because you're creating something that you can think of as "backwards" given that it's a creation of something flowing in the same direction as another instead of single loop path.

Here's some light reading.

But just so you know, not everything they suggest gives the results you'll want. There can be complications to some forms of noise control, like Y capacitors on the hot line.

Also, all of the similar typology's mentioned in here do have this "backwards" noise prevention. They're variations on what you'll see in that link; and just like with any audio gear, the little differences play a big role on the ears.

[stehno]

SA, your first link was for Jena Labs' Sequoia which is another line conditioner that I thinks takes a slightly different approach.  I've auditioned it too for a few weeks and thought its performance quite good, but I preferred their smaller The Ones.   Which apparently are discontinued and the new version The Model 2 which is found here:

http://www.jenalabs.com/ac-products/acboxes.html

I appreciate your sharing the technical info, but too much technical info for me. 

I've been using various Foundation Research LC models since 2000 and FR went defunct a few years ago.  To the best of my knowledge the FR's have been rated the best in biz by some-to-many including me. As far as I know every reviewer that reviewed them purchased the samples.  The One I auditioned about 6 months ago barely edged out over my FR's and as I recall they were just completing a mod to significantly improve it, now The Model 2.

All I know is finding proper line conditioning is like looking for a needle in a haystack as most either do little or nothing or worse induce their own sonic harm.  In fact, based on my experience with friends and customers, my general rule of thumb with line conditioners is, the more popular the mfg'er name, the less likely they benefit.  At least historically.  For example, I was at a friend's home to help him install some new amps and he had about $5k worth of a very popular name brand.  After install, we listened for about 10 minutes and I couldn't take it any more and asked if we could try listinging without $5k worth of line conditioners and instead just plug the components straight into the wall.  We did and we both agreed it was a good jump better with far less fatigue.  Then I ran home and brough back my FR LC's for a quite a boost in overall musicality.

He ended up buying 3 or 4 FR LC's.

Anyway, if you know of a better mousetrap, go for it.  I've not tried them all but I've yet hear a system without proper line conditioning that's worth listening to.

The point being, maybe there are better line conditioners but they truly are hard to find but well worth it when you do.

I just hate to see people purchase inferior line conditioners because if they do they often times will post out on a forum,
"I tried line conditioners with my system and my system sounded worse.  I don't need line conditioners and if you need line conditioners then something's wrong with your system.", etc. 

Thus giving all line conditioners a bad name.   That's why I suspect in the year 2014 most still don't use line conditioners and that's why I suspect FR went out of business.

Thanks for sharing.

[jhrlrd]

Just came across the lessloss firewall module. These connected in series between each outlet might be the ticket to keep each
outlet separate.

[jeffreybehr]

...  Also, the AudioQuest unit seems interesting too. ...

I can't find an AQ P-con; got a link?

[jeffreybehr]

FWIW, I have an Audience aR-12 (Improved, by me).  See http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106120.0
if you're curious.

First, it uses smaller capacitors...0.47uF IIRC...on 'digital' outlets compared with those on 'analog' outlets.
Second, each individual outlet is separately filtered inductively (a CMC choke) and capacitively (line to neutral).
Third, there's inductive and capacitive filtering at the frontend, with a large CMC choke and a largish capacitor (line-to-neutral).  There are also smallish line-to-earth and neutral-to-earth caps at the frontend.

I believe that separate-per-outlet inductive and capacitive filtering will substantially reduce the noise generated by any single piece plugged into the aR-12 and effectively isolate digital equipment from ALL other equipment plugged into the '12.

Full disclosure--I'm in the process of replacing the aR-12 with a Balanced Power Technologies BP-3.5 symmetrical-power p-con.

[jtwrace]

I can't find an AQ P-con; got a link?

No, it was shown at RMAF 14 and I see the ads in some mags.  That's it.