[dburna]

Actually, I'm not convinced that the subject header is correct.  I wanted to collect folks' thoughts about the "state of the DAC industry".  I have a pretty good reasonably-priced DAC solution: A-RT USB converter -> Audio G-D DAC19.  No, it's not an end-all/be-all state-of-the-art DAC, but it's good enough for 16/44.1 (vast majority of my collection) that I'm not terribly itchy to move to something better at considerably more bucks.  Those R2R DAC chips do have a compelling sound.  But in a DAC competitive landscape where firms are bringing out something new every day, it gets me to a few questions:

1. DSD playback: I've seen opinions in different directions about whether DSD is really a huge step up in sound quality.  Is it "essential" to have this capability if buying a DAC today?  I know that others assert it's the mastering, not the hi-rez playback that matters, but I wonder what folks' "real world" experience has been.

2.  The promise of FPGA's: in theory, having a huge FPGA with densely-packed gates provides great potential for high performance, flexibility, and future-proofing.  Further, it's possible to foresee FPGA implementations that excel at both PCM an DSD/DXD decoding.  But that's in theory.  What do y'all think about the potential of FPGA's?  Will manufacturers start to shift DAC implementations to FPGA's?  Or will this always be a niche because of the know-how required to write proprietary filters and to program gate arrays?

3. Will a major manufacturer step into the ring soon with a great DAC at a price point befitting its economies of scale?  I noticed that Marantz just put out a new DAC/headphone amp, their first standalone DAC if memory serves.  Do you think other big manufacturers will follow suit?  If so, could this lead to a big improvement in the performance-to-cost ratio for DACs in general?

4. Is a truly great $1k DAC a near-term possibility?  Or just wishful thinking?

5. What do you think is a reasonable price to sink into a DAC in light of the pace of technological advancement?  In general, how long does a $1-2k DAC stay competitive before better solutions come along at the same price point?  3 years?  2 years?  180 days?  An hour? 

Anyway, I am not trying to be controversial in raising these topics.  I just wanted to get the ball rolling on a discussion of the DAC competitive landscape and whether I it makes more sense to purchase a new DAC now.....or let the market shake out a year or two more.  I also want to see where others stand on this buy-or-wait question.

-dB ("If you're not careful, you learn something new every day")

[richidoo]

Seize the day! Don't wait for tomorrow.

Here's a new one: Morningstar Audio Minimax DAC Jr. has ESS 9018, USB, DSD, SS output, $850.
http://www.morningstaraudio.com/product/minimax-solid-state-dac-junior/

[Phil A]

I bought my Teac UD-501 (Double) DSD Capable DAC (http://www.teac.com/product/ud-501/) new for a secondary system for under $800 new from an authorized dealer over a year ago.  Can't really complain about the price/performance.  I heard it at the 2013 Capital Audiofest in the Stack of DACs (http://www.stereophile.com/content/capital-audiofest-day-two-part-one) in the everythingaudio.net room and thought of all the DACs (in the room) it was the best for PCM (and was not the most expensive).

[dburna]

Seize the day! Don't wait for tomorrow.

Here's a new one: Morningstar Audio Minimax DAC Jr. has ESS 9018, USB, DSD, SS output, $850.
http://www.morningstaraudio.com/product/minimax-solid-state-dac-junior/

Interesting.  At the risk of derailing my own thread, does anyone else give pause when the words "SABRE Inside" are used to describe a new DAC?  The Auralic Vega is surely terrific, but other SABRE DACs I have heard give me pause.  I'd venture to say that there are more middling SABRE DAC implementations out there than great ones.  I don't know why, but it seems to be difficult to wring the performance out of a SABRE DAC chip......though I'd be willing to believe that it has inherent high potential.

I want to keep an open mind, but this is one I would probably have to have in-house to assess before a purchase.

-dB

[dburna]

I bought my Teac UD-501 (Double) DSD Capable DAC (http://www.teac.com/product/ud-501/) new for a secondary system for under $800 new from an authorized dealer over a year ago. 

Another person whose hearing/judgment I trust highly has spoken highly of this DAC.  This is where we get into the "major manufacturer entry" into the DAC world.  Could the new Marantz DAC equal the TEAC at a comparable price?  Better it?  Is another similar DAC just around the horizon?  At the price point, there seem so many entrants, with more each day.  It's hard to know whether to move forward or wait.

-dB

[Jon L]

There always comes a time when audiophiles catch themselves listening to music because it is "hi res" or "DSD" instead of music they actually love. 

99% of music I love and music I own are STILL 16/44.1; therefore, a DAC's performance with 16/44.1 is still the major consideration.  Personally, I think there is too much emphasis being placed these days on DAC's and DAC chips when things like speakers/rooms make way, way more contribution to the final sound quality 

IMO, What this country really needs is a "stellar/future-proof $1K" speakers. 

[JLM]

There always comes a time when audiophiles catch themselves listening to music because it is "hi res" or "DSD" instead of music they actually love. 

99% of music I love and music I own are STILL 16/44.1; therefore, a DAC's performance with 16/44.1 is still the major consideration.  Personally, I think there is too much emphasis being placed these days on DAC's and DAC chips when things like speakers/rooms make way, way more contribution to the final sound quality 

IMO, What this country really needs is a "stellar/future-proof $1K" speakers. 

I am so with you!!!   

But just to stay on topic and contribute, this reviewer found under $1,000 DAC solutions (even under $500) completely "livable" and they all do Hi-Res:  http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue66/computer_audio.htm

The one that is currently peaking my interest is the ifi micro iDSD (with iUSBPower): all formats (PCM768, 2xDXD, DSD512); versatile headphone amp; optical, coax, USB inputs; many other useful features; good sound; clean power; compact.  Yes, 99% of my collection is Redbook, but future proofing is a good thing.

[mcgsxr]

I think that DAC's are the area moving the fastest in terms of development, so trying to pick a long term piece now will hinge on formats.

I run 90% 16.44 FLAC.  I have a growing collection of 24.96 and 24.88 though.  I don't yet have any 24.192 or any of the DSD formats.

For me, sticking with a good affordable lower end usb DAC has been the ticket so far.  I continue to value the HRT music streamer II I picked up used here (thanks again lcrim).

I watch with interest the changes and advancements (?) in formats and DAC's but so far I remain uninterested in spending more.  I have tried 4 other more expensive used usb DAC's but sold them all after a week or so each time. 

[mav52]

I bought my Teac UD-501 (Double) DSD Capable DAC (http://www.teac.com/product/ud-501/) new for a secondary system for under $800 new from an authorized dealer over a year ago.  Can't really complain about the price/performance.  I heard it at the 2013 Capital Audiofest in the Stack of DACs (http://www.stereophile.com/content/capital-audiofest-day-two-part-one) in the everythingaudio.net room and thought of all the DACs (in the room) it was the best for PCM (and was not the most expensive).

I also have the UD501 plus a Mytek DSD and a Chord HD and it's interesting I always come back to the UD501.  A nice DAC for the price.

[woodsyi]

I am so with you!!!   

But just to stay on topic and contribute, this reviewer found under $1,000 DAC solutions (even under $500) completely "livable" and they all do Hi-Res:  http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue66/computer_audio.htm

The one that is currently peaking my interest is the ifi micro iDSD (with iUSBPower): all formats (PCM768, 2xDXD, DSD512); versatile headphone amp; optical, coax, USB inputs; many other useful features; good sound; clean power; compact.  Yes, 99% of my collection is Redbook, but future proofing is a good thing.

Pez dragged me over to Canjam to listen to this.  I was really impressed.  Vincent from ifi and Darren from Avatar Acoustics were very cool guys and seemed to be doing amazing business.  Darren was absolutely sold out of every unit they brought to the show and they were saying even units left back sold out.  He was looking for another shipment.  It sounded really good as a headphone amp.  I didn't even think of it as a DAC in my main system.

[richidoo]

Even redbook benefits from jitter reduction, maybe more so than higher resolution files. So the DAC can still have a big affect on listening enjoyment even on redbook files. Sabre has internal jitter reduction that works very well.

I used to believe that speakers were the most important part of the system, but after getting top notch DAC and phono, I now know that the source is just as important as speakers, if not more.

I'm not concerned with future proof. Whenever I decide that all my stereo equipment is good enough then my audiophile hobby is over. I welcome innovations in equipment because it will require remaking the system to accommodate the improvement, and that's fun (most of the time.)

I've heard good and bad Sabre DAC implementations. The DAC chip itself is excellent, I would not rule it out. Good digital is about reducing jitter, filtering and good output stage. Sabre chip does its part very well.

[TF1216]

Micro iDSD owner here.  This DAC delivers as promised.  It power my IEMs without a problem.  It drove the Audeze LCD-XZ with ease when I tried them out at CanJam.  Lastly, it just kills it when I plug it into my home stereo.  I set it to "Direct" mode to handle all volume control via an app.   

You should give it a try OR wait until the Mini iDSD comes out.  It will likely be ~$1,000 with 4 DAC chips instead of 2 as in the Micro.

[Phil A]

Another person whose hearing/judgment I trust highly has spoken highly of this DAC.  This is where we get into the "major manufacturer entry" into the DAC world.  Could the new Marantz DAC equal the TEAC at a comparable price?  Better it?  Is another similar DAC just around the horizon?  At the price point, there seem so many entrants, with more each day.  It's hard to know whether to move forward or wait.

-dB

I bought a lightly used Meitner from a guy who did not have much DSD and bought the Benchmark DAC after selling me the Meitner (and the Benchmark was also in the DAC shootout referenced in my previous post along with the Teac).  I told him about the Teac and he bought it and sold his Benchmark as he preferred the Teac as well.  Digital will always change (and rapidly vs. other components).  I am very pleased with it in a secondary system and have not even tried DSD in my secondary system yet (have not gotten to it).  At the price points of the Teac or other DACs mentioned in this thread, it is hard to go wrong.  If I felt something better came up at a good price, I'd have no problem finding use for it in another secondary system.  Compared to a few years ago, DACs at this price point have come a long way.

[vortrex]

Micro iDSD owner here.  This DAC delivers as promised.  It power my IEMs without a problem.  It drove the Audeze LCD-XZ with ease when I tried them out at CanJam.  Lastly, it just kills it when I plug it into my home stereo.  I set it to "Direct" mode to handle all volume control via an app.   

You should give it a try OR wait until the Mini iDSD comes out.  It will likely be ~$1,000 with 4 DAC chips instead of 2 as in the Micro.

Over on head-fi, iFi said it was going to be $1500 now.