[windhoek]

I've had a stereo-only setup for a while, but would like to go back to a multi-channel setup and wonder how I could do this now that I've ripped my SACDs. I currently use JRiver to play stereo ISO files, but what would I need to do this with m/c. The caveat here is, I'm going back to a quad setup i.e. two speakers at the front and two at the rear; no centre and no sub!

My current kit includes:
Source: OPPO 103D/ HTPC (Jriver)
Amp: Teddy Pardo pre/ poweramp combo
Speakers: ATC SCM11

I'll obviously buy another pair of ATC speakers (SCM7s for the rear) as well a Teddy Pardo poweramp, but what else do I need to buy or do to make it work. I know I can always use my OPPO to spin and downmix the m/c discs to quad, but how can I do this using SACD ISO files?

[windhoek]

I should add, having a 4.0 setup for SACD ISO files is Plan A and using my OPPO as to spin and downmix 5.1 to 4.0 is Plan C, but there could be room for a Plan B that uses the OPPO to spin the discs, but use something else to downmix 5.1 to 4.0, although I don't have space for a big AVR, so that's out, but a smaller gadget that can do the same job might make Plan B work. So,

Plan A: Use HTPC to play m/c SACD ISO files
Plan B: Use OPPO to play discs only
Plan C: Use OPPO to play and downmix 5.1 to 4.0

It might well be the gadget that can make Plan B work can also make Plan A work and therefore, Plan B might be moot, but I don't know.

[Phil A]

In a spare system I have a 103D (have one in the main system but don't use it much for multi-channel).  I've extracted the multi-channel DSD files (also 2-channel DSD and regular CDs) and have them on a hard drive and just select them.

[Phil A]

Once you have the ISO files, extracting the DSD files is not a hard task

[Russtafarian]

Multi-channel playback is so much fun.  It takes some effort to get it set up correctly, but it is so worth it.   I also use a BDP-103 in a quad setup.

I've extracted the multi-channel DSD files (also 2-channel DSD and regular CDs) and have them on a hard drive and just select them.

That's the way I do it, hard drive connected to the BDP-103, but only for multi-channel files.  The Oppo tablet app makes disk navigation reasonably easy. 

One issue with this approach is that when playing DSD files natively, the BDP-103 does no signal processing.  This means the 103 volume control does not work and you can't remix the center channel into the left and right speakers.  The center channel blend issue only affects a handful of albums, but when it's there it's hard to ignore.  Playing Billy Joel or James Taylor without center blend results in no lead vocal at all.

You have two options to deal with this.  Setting the 103 to convert DSD to PCM will activate the volume control and center blend functions.  It's not optimal, but it works and still sounds pretty good.

To decode and play back multi-channel DSD natively you need to add a multi-channel preamp or move up to a BDP-105 that will control volume for native DSD playback.  I recently added a Nuforce MCP-18 multi-channel preamp and am pretty impressed with it.  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NUMCP18

Russ

[Phil A]

I had files extracted to the 103D in the main system too but the (left and right channel) amp did not like the small ticks and shut down (went into protect mode) so I will just use the discs if I want multi-channel (I have an integrated HT/2-channel system with a preamp with HT Bypass).  While I prefer 2-channel most of the time, it is fun to playback music that way (eventually when I upgrade something another system with get one of the 103Ds - have a 93 in the bedroom system which of course can just do hi-rez PCM).  The secondary system where I play multi-channel also has a preamp with HT Bypass in an integrated system.  I'd imagine it will sound better when I get a new receiver as for now I'm using in-ceiling surrounds but when I get something with Dolby Atmos in that secondary system I'll be adding real surround speakers (have them and will be ordering the stands soon).  I only extracted about 50 albums in multi-channel to start with.

[windhoek]

Thanks for the posts and I now realise I can use my OPPO 103D as a processor and either connect a HDD directly into it or send audio to it from my HTPC. I know the OPPO can play DSF, but will I need to convert the SACD ISO to DSF then PCM FLAC to allow speaker adjustment i.e. downmix from 5.1 to 4.0 because as mentioned, it can't do that while the audio is DSD.

[Phil A]

Thanks for the posts and I now realise I can use my OPPO 103D as a processor and either connect a HDD directly into it or send audio to it from my HTPC. I know the OPPO can play DSF, but will I need to convert the SACD ISO to DSF then PCM FLAC to allow speaker adjustment i.e. downmix from 5.1 to 4.0 because as mentioned, it can't do that while the audio is DSD.

See Russ' post above - "One issue with this approach is that when playing DSD files natively, the BDP-103 does no signal processing.  This means the 103 volume control does not work and you can't remix the center channel into the left and right speakers.  The center channel blend issue only affects a handful of albums, but when it's there it's hard to ignore.  Playing Billy Joel or James Taylor without center blend results in no lead vocal at all.

You have two options to deal with this.  Setting the 103 to convert DSD to PCM will activate the volume control and center blend functions.  It's not optimal, but it works and still sounds pretty good."

Once you do the extraction of the DSD file from the ISO file, you set the Oppo to convert DSD to PCM (unless I misunderstood his post)

[windhoek]

Of course, I can simply set the OPPO to convert DSD to PCM, doh! Although it means going via PCM, it's the only way I can implement any sort of  speaker management and therefore, is a necessity. I posted this thread thinking I'd probably need to buy some sort of external processor to downmix 5.1 to 4.0, but suddenly the plan looks much simpler!

[Phil A]

Of course, I can simply set the OPPO to convert DSD to PCM, doh! Although it means going via PCM, it's the only way I can implement any sort of  speaker management and therefore, is a necessity. I posted this thread thinking I'd probably need to buy some sort of external processor to downmix 5.1 to 4.0, but suddenly the plan looks much simpler!

The Oppo conversion sounds good.  Several years back before I went to music server playback in the main system, I used an HDMI audio de-embedder, taking 24/88.2 PCM out of the HDMI into the Oppo and going out the coax output to my DAC for 2-channel SACDs.  I had a modded BDP-83 in the main system back then and actually preferred the sound of the hi-rez PCM into the DAC slightly vs. playing the SACD.

[windhoek]

Wow, me too! Until I bought an appropriate PS3 a few months ago, I used a Monoprice De-embedder to route 2-ch SACD audio via my Lavry DA11 DAC in preference to the OPPO 105 I had at the time and 103 I currently own (I downgraded OPPOs in fact, because I didn't enjoy music using its DAC compared to my Lavry DAC). The only thing missing from the OPPO is EQ balancing across the channels and an auto-setup mic; other than that, it's fantastic gadget which merges several AV functions in one box and merges them well. With a bit of luck, OPPO will add these to their next gen players.

[Phil A]

I used the de-embedder for years.  Before the Monoprice unit was available, I had the unit made by the manufacturer - Portta of Hong Kong (I had to get it from EBay Australia).  This is the Portta unit - http://www.port-ta.com/products/203.htm 

I also upgraded the power supply as anything that works for a Squeezebox Touch will work with the Portta/Monoprice units.

[bmoura]

exaSound e28 Multichannel DAC.  Works great with DSF ISO files.

[windhoek]

cheers bmoura, that was the sort of gadget I was hoping to be recommended, although it's a tad steep for me and sadly, as I live in the UK, likely to become even costlier with import VAT + Duty. I might have spent £1k, but that's likely to be more than double. Nevertheless, thanks for the post

[windhoek]

I wonder, would there be any need to use a multichannel analogue preamp (Parasound P7 for example) with an Exasound E28? Although the E28 has a digital preamp, is it best used simply as a processor and DAC? I ask because there's choice between adding a stereo poweramp for the rear speakers or using a multichannel preamp and poweramp combo? Fwiw, I haven't got an E28, I'm still planning how I'll implement a 4.0 setup because there are lots of choices available. If anyone uses an E28, please say whether you route it via an analogue preamp.

PC>E28>Poweramp
or
PC>E28>m/c Analogue Preamp>Poweramp

Fwiw, if I don't go for a m/c preamp, audio for the front will be going to to an integrated with AV Bypass and audio to the rear to a poweramp (same make as front amp).

[Phil A]

I wonder, would there be any need to use a multichannel analogue preamp (Parasound P7 for example) with an Exasound E28? Although the E28 has a digital preamp, is it best used simply as a processor and DAC? I ask because there's choice between adding a stereo poweramp for the rear speakers or using a multichannel preamp and poweramp combo? Fwiw, I haven't got an E28, I'm still planning how I'll implement a 4.0 setup because there are lots of choices available. If anyone uses an E28, please say whether you route it via an analogue preamp.

PC>E28>Poweramp
or
PC>E28>m/c Analogue Preamp>Poweramp

Fwiw, if I don't go for a m/c preamp, audio for the front will be going to to an integrated with AV Bypass and audio to the rear to a poweramp (same make as front amp).

If you want just a multi-channel preamp there's stuff like - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115839.0

[bmoura]

I'm using an EMM Labs 6 Channel Switcher/Preamp with the exaSound e28 Multichannel DAC here.  Works great - and it handles Multichannel files up to Quad Rate DSD (DSD-256), 4 times the SACD resolution.
Very nice...   

[windhoek]

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't sure whether adding a m/c preamp between source (OPPO or HTPC via Exasound for example) would in principle do anything to improve the end SQ because I'll be using an integrated with AV Bypass for front speakers and a poweramp for the rears. I can see using one preamp to control volume for all speakers might bring an improved cohesiveness, but it also means another gadget.

It sounds like it might bring something good Bmoura, thanks. Have you tried running the E28 direct to your poweramps?

[bmoura]

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't sure whether adding a m/c preamp between source (OPPO or HTPC via Exasound for example) would in principle do anything to improve the end SQ because I'll be using an integrated with AV Bypass for front speakers and a poweramp for the rears. I can see using one preamp to control volume for all speakers might bring an improved cohesiveness, but it also means another gadget.

It sounds like it might bring something good Bmoura, thanks. Have you tried running the E28 direct to your poweramps?

Haven't tried it.  But those who have say it works fine.   Certainly another option to explore.

[ted_b]

I reviewed the e28 and multichannel computer playback last year for computeraudiophile.com  In it I explained my setup at the time, which included the wonderful old Sony TAP-9000ES multichannel preamp. 

Since then George and team have created an exaSound plugin for JRiver 20, one which allows for the e28 driver to control volume in synch with JRIver (i.e use JRIver system volume then adjust via JRiver GUI or jremote, to control e28 directly) even when bitstreaming DSD!!  This allowed me to try going direct (not a long term solution since I use the TAP-9000ES for switching/bypassing other mch stuff) and it worked flawlessly.  This even handles a little bass mgmt issue where PCM multichannel has a 10db LFE difference from DSD.  A JRIver DSP rule is set (in parameteric eq of all places), and since DSP doesn't work in DSD it automatically is only enforced with PCM. 

I use the SACD ISO mch view I created on JRIver (I documented here and on CA how to create views that work in Jremote, for example).  The mch ISO view simply allows JRIver to only show the multichannel layer of an ISO so one does not pick the stereo tracks (simple rule is to create "filetype is SACD", and then simply add "channels greater than or equal to 3".)

Here is the same idea (just using stereo ISO rule, i.e channels less than or equal to 2)