Rmaf news

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audiotom

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Rmaf news
« on: 10 Oct 2014, 05:18 pm »
What is the word out of RMAF?

I went in 2011

Im on vacation at the Balloon Fiesta in Albuquerque this weekend
Only a state away
But with you in spirit

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #1 on: 14 Oct 2014, 09:33 pm »
Here is a quick video we did of the room at RMAF. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGu6ly1LueA&feature=youtu.be

It really sounded great AND we had no room treatment!

Dan and Alex really did a great job with the new gear!

thanks,
lou


vinyl_lady

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #2 on: 16 Oct 2014, 01:52 am »
Nice video Lou. I agree. You're room sounded great from the beginning of the show.

S1NN3R

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #3 on: 16 Oct 2014, 02:08 am »
I was out shopping for my secondary system at RMAF. Requested to demo 2 of my CD with 1 track each at Daedalus & Modwright room. Had the chance to play my first CD and absolutely loved it. But when a reviewer walked in when they were about to play my second CD. I was completely shoved to the side and ask me to wait because of the reviewer. I thought it was a first come first served basis. I walked out disappointed. They just lost a potential customer.

Hugh

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #4 on: 16 Oct 2014, 02:13 am »
What is the room number since Daedalus was in more than 1 room.
I was out shopping for my secondary system at RMAF. Requested to demo 2 of my CD with 1 track each at Daedalus & Modwright room. Had the chance to play my first CD and absolutely loved it. But when a reviewer walked in when they were about to play my second CD. I was completely shoved to the side and ask me to wait because of the reviewer. I thought it was a first come first served basis. I walked out disappointed. They just lost a potential customer.

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #5 on: 16 Oct 2014, 02:32 am »
I was out shopping for my secondary system at RMAF. Requested to demo 2 of my CD with 1 track each at Daedalus & Modwright room. Had the chance to play my first CD and absolutely loved it. But when a reviewer walked in when they were about to play my second CD. I was completely shoved to the side and ask me to wait because of the reviewer. I thought it was a first come first served basis. I walked out disappointed. They just lost a potential customer.
That could have been my room downstairs, I recall someone had a couple CD's and after the first one a reviewer, I think Steven Stone, asked for a cut. I asked if that was ok for them to cut in but I'll admit I could have been more patient. My apologies.
The problem we have is that the reviewers only have a matter of a couple of minutes to experience each room and in a show that size they do NOT come back, they just do not have the time. So we are caught in the middle of trying to provide a good experience for the attendees and getting our room noted by the press. Sometimes we just don't handle that very well and I certainly could have done that better.
That is one reason I prefer the smaller shows so that we all have more quality time.
thanks,
lou

Hugh

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #6 on: 16 Oct 2014, 02:45 am »
Well said Lou.

I happen to agree with you about reviewer(s) and their time.
It's a double-edged sword, either way you look at it.

It's not easy to be exhibiting at any shows.
You can only try your best. :)
That could have been my room downstairs, I recall someone had a couple CD's and after the first one a reviewer, I think Steven Stone, asked for a cut. I asked if that was ok for them to cut in but I'll admit I could have been more patient. My apologies.
The problem we have is that the reviewers only have a matter of a couple of minutes to experience each room and in a show that size they do NOT come back, they just do not have the time. So we are caught in the middle of trying to provide a good experience for the attendees and getting our room noted by the press. Sometimes we just don't handle that very well and I certainly could have done that better.
That is one reason I prefer the smaller shows so that we all have more quality time.
thanks,
lou

GT Audio Works

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #7 on: 16 Oct 2014, 02:59 am »
I was out shopping for my secondary system at RMAF. Requested to demo 2 of my CD with 1 track each at Daedalus & Modwright room. Had the chance to play my first CD and absolutely loved it. But when a reviewer walked in when they were about to play my second CD. I was completely shoved to the side and ask me to wait because of the reviewer. I thought it was a first come first served basis. I walked out disappointed. They just lost a potential customer.
I can understand why you may feel shoved aside. But maybe you might look at it from the exhibitors point of view.
We pay thousands of dollars to exhibit at these shows. While we exhibit to show our wares to the public, we also are there to get exposure by the audio press. A good word or two from a reviewer can go a long way in building a customers interest in a product.
A reviewer has to cover as much ground as possible in the limited time allotted for the show. Under such circumstances, the reviewer is bound to just show up in the room unannounced, If the exhibitor doesn't offer to play the reviewers music choice, he may not be back later.
When I find myself in this situation , I apologize to the guest and ask them if I might let the reviewer play a selection and offer to play the guests track after that or invite them to come back before or after the show.  A show is a very busy time for an exhibitor, many things going on at once. Its very hard to keep a lid on everything going on. I am sure they meant no offense, I would not rule out a very good product for a misunderstanding.   Greg

dB Cooper

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #8 on: 16 Oct 2014, 03:14 am »
The more of Greg's posts I read, the more aware I become that he is a really good guy who makes really good equipment that sells at really good prices. I am glad that the dialogs we are seeing on here are taking place. We all love music and want there to be good source material and good systems to listen to it on. Audio shows are the only venue left for many vendors and potential customers to connect without taking a megabuck roll of the dice. And consideration is contagious. I have seen much thought provoking input from both vendors and attendees here.

dodgealum

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #9 on: 16 Oct 2014, 03:31 pm »
I think in many ways the industry has not adjusted to the decline of brick and mortar audio stores. Over the past few years the emerging consensus was that regional audio shows were going to become the primary alternative for consumers of audio gear. However, my take (after attending NY and CAS and reading about the most recent RMAF coverage) is that the show phenomenon is flaming out. In my experience, this is NOT a good way to demonstrate or audition audio equipment--for a variety of reasons. This post has merely highlighted one of many inherent problems. I don't know what the answer is but if shows like RMAF continue to be a primary means of connecting consumer with manufacturer, I wonder whether the press should have exclusive access to the exhibitors for all or part of one day. This could happen on Friday or Sunday, the latter would allow them to survey the entire show with the rest of the crowd and obtain a sense of what they want to focus on after the consumers have left the scene. This might help to relieve some of the tension created for exhibitors who are trying to respect the wishes and needs of both consumers and exhibitors alike.

DaveC113

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #10 on: 16 Oct 2014, 03:52 pm »
I see your point but B&M stores were not perfect either for a variety of reasons such as limited selection, high prices required to pay rent and salaries for the sales staff, and it's not like there were no snobby B&M sales people/owners either. At shows you get a wider variety of audio gear to look at and this includes many direct-sales companies that offer better value than you can get using traditional marketing. If you're serious about auditioning gear you are considering purchasing I can't imagine a vendor at a show not making time for you, personally, after hours to demo the system however you want.

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #11 on: 16 Oct 2014, 04:56 pm »
I think in many ways the industry has not adjusted to the decline of brick and mortar audio stores. Over the past few years the emerging consensus was that regional audio shows were going to become the primary alternative for consumers of audio gear. However, my take (after attending NY and CAS and reading about the most recent RMAF coverage) is that the show phenomenon is flaming out. In my experience, this is NOT a good way to demonstrate or audition audio equipment--for a variety of reasons. This post has merely highlighted one of many inherent problems. I don't know what the answer is but if shows like RMAF continue to be a primary means of connecting consumer with manufacturer, I wonder whether the press should have exclusive access to the exhibitors for all or part of one day. This could happen on Friday or Sunday, the latter would allow them to survey the entire show with the rest of the crowd and obtain a sense of what they want to focus on after the consumers have left the scene. This might help to relieve some of the tension created for exhibitors who are trying to respect the wishes and needs of both consumers and exhibitors alike.
The role of the press and stores and shows and direct sales and.... are all in flux.  Even though the shows are a lot of work, I do think they are an excellent way to get an "introduction" to the consumer. I would not expect someone to make a final decision at a show, though often people will spend enough time and do just that, but it is a great way to meet the designer and get an impression of what the product is about. The good AND the bad of this is that the designers are rarely good sales people, so there are often faux pas in sales etiquette but also a refreshing honesty.
As for the press, big shows are a real challenge. They have limited staff and it takes three 8 hour days non stop just to give a few minutes to each room in a show like RMAF. We exhibitors see less of the press every year as they cut staff and shows get bigger, so our challenge is to be considerate of BOTH the press and the consumer. When I cater to the press now it is not because I feel they are important and the attendee is not, it is really about being considerate of their time which is very very limited.

Bottom line is that shows are a great introduction which can be followed up with phone calls, visits and even in home auditions. It is often the only way to get that introduction to the small makers who for the most part are making the best and most affordable gear.

My request is that attendees please understand the very serious time constraints on the press, be patient and also communicate with the exhibitor as to requests for after hours or extended listening to their music etc.  I have had people set up times to come in and play their music because they knew their musical choices would be difficult for most people and I really appreciated that consideration.
thanks,
Lou

david12

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #12 on: 17 Oct 2014, 09:42 am »
I think in many ways the industry has not adjusted to the decline of brick and mortar audio stores. Over the past few years the emerging consensus was that regional audio shows were going to become the primary alternative for consumers of audio gear. However, my take (after attending NY and CAS and reading about the most recent RMAF coverage) is that the show phenomenon is flaming out. In my experience, this is NOT a good way to demonstrate or audition audio equipment--for a variety of reasons. This post has merely highlighted one of many inherent problems. I don't know what the answer is but if shows like RMAF continue to be a primary means of connecting consumer with manufacturer, I wonder whether the press should have exclusive access to the exhibitors for all or part of one day. This could happen on Friday or Sunday, the latter would allow them to survey the entire show with the rest of the crowd and obtain a sense of what they want to focus on after the consumers have left the scene. This might help to relieve some of the tension created for exhibitors who are trying to respect the wishes and needs of both consumers and exhibitors alike.

 I agree shows are'nt ideal for auditions, but often that is what you have available. I went to RMAF from the UK in2010, a great trip, specifically to hear Lou's speakers and I ordered a pair, which will remain my main speakers. I think Lou said mine was the only direct order at the show, but other people will come back with orders later. I would be interested if Lou could say what his priorities are at a show, to be seen, to get orders, to be reviewed, to get best of show(again and again).

 Stores atre closing all over the world and we have to accept it. HiFi is increasingly a minority sport and is still declining. Sales can no longer support Main Street stores and anyway, HiFi is'nt an impulse buy. No one walks past a store and says" That reminds me, I need to buy a $50000 HiFi system"

  There are other models though. In the UK, I think all high end dealers work from home or in small lock up warehouses on industrial estates, opened by prior arrangement. That works really well in fact, one customer at a time, with an experienced owner proprioter giving you all his attention. The other model works as Lou does already, a group of previous clients happy to demo in their own homes and that works well too. We simply have to accept that HiFi stores are a thing of the past, which are going to continue declining over time.

jriggy

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #13 on: 17 Oct 2014, 01:18 pm »
Great responses here from the pros and other members but I cant help but feel that s1nn3r is being a little dramatic in his /her wording...

Sinner, you owe it to yourself to give Daedalus and Modwright another chance. It is silly to discount brands, at this level, over a situation like this. I hope the responses here have helped you know there is much more going on at a show than the next guy with a CD.

What I have learned from the few shows I have been to is: Be patient and relaxed in the crowds, wear deodorant and hope everyone else does :lol:, and most of all, the exhibitors do not owe us anything, so be appreciative of their hard work and efforts in trying to present a  great system under show conditions --But I err on the side of feeling for some exhibitors, as opposed to feeling personally slighted. It has got to be difficult managing a constant revolving door of bodies, questions and requests for 3+ days straight.

jonbee

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #14 on: 17 Oct 2014, 03:31 pm »
Great responses here from the pros and other members but I cant help but feel that s1nn3r is being a little dramatic in his /her wording...

Sinner, you owe it to yourself to give Daedalus and Modwright another chance. It is silly to discount brands, at this level, over a situation like this. I hope the responses here have helped you know there is much more going on at a show than the next guy with a CD.

What I have learned from the few shows I have been to is: Be patient and relaxed in the crowds, wear deodorant and hope everyone else does :lol:, and most of all, the exhibitors do not owe us anything, so be appreciative of their hard work and efforts in trying to present a  great system under show conditions --But I err on the side of feeling for some exhibitors, as opposed to feeling personally slighted. It has got to be difficult managing a constant revolving door of bodies, questions and requests for 3+ days straight.
+1. Well said.

figcon

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #15 on: 17 Oct 2014, 06:07 pm »
This is not a unique experience at shows and I've read of other people's similar experiences in The Absolute Sound. It is just unfortunate timing. Lou is very gracious at shows and if you are interested in hearing his speakers, there are plenty of people all over the country that would probably be willing to demo them for you and in more real world environments than those at shows.

Jason is correct. To discount Daedalus speakers because of this,would be shortsighted of you.

BobRex

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #16 on: 17 Oct 2014, 06:24 pm »

What I have learned from the few shows I have been to is: Be patient and relaxed in the crowds, wear deodorant and hope everyone else does :lol:, and most of all, the exhibitors do not owe us anything, so be appreciative of their hard work and efforts in trying to present a  great system under show conditions --But I err on the side of feeling for some exhibitors, as opposed to feeling personally slighted. It has got to be difficult managing a constant revolving door of bodies, questions and requests for 3+ days straight.
I'm going to go a little extremist here to make a point, but in reality the exhibitors owe us EVERYTHING.  Without us, they have no customer base, especially in the direct market.

Yes, a potential customer might be able to find a local user of the product that's willing to do a demo, but these shows offer the chance to demo and discuss with the manufacturer / importer / rep / whoever.  I agree fully that the customer has to show a great deal of flexibility, but by extension that works both ways.  And I do feel for people like Lou, not only for the reasons you laid out, but also because there is no dealer network, he has to see all of the oddballs that a dealer normally filters out.  If you get an icy reception from a dealer, you might look for another dealer.  Get that same reception from a manufacturer, and you might look for a different product.

Hugh

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #17 on: 17 Oct 2014, 06:54 pm »
If I may, I'd like to offer an opposite extremist POV.

In reality, customers/end users owe small/boutique manufacturers EVERYTHING.
Without these guys, us included, music lovers would have spent a lot more money for very little worth.

When was the last time anybody opened up an outrageous product, be it speakers or amplifiers, from those well known expensive brand(s) and found out the inert left a lot to be desired, given the high price?
On the other hand, small business has always have to show their best to begin with in the hope of attracting interests for their products and go from there.

Furthermore, until and unless you spent time exhibiting yourself, you'd not know how much time and effort gone into this plus the amount of flexibility one has to show to accommodate his/her room visitors..
In another word, it is truly a two way street.

Just my $0.02. :)
I'm going to go a little extremist here to make a point, but in reality the exhibitors owe us EVERYTHING.  Without us, they have no customer base, especially in the direct market.

Yes, a potential customer might be able to find a local user of the product that's willing to do a demo, but these shows offer the chance to demo and discuss with the manufacturer / importer / rep / whoever.  I agree fully that the customer has to show a great deal of flexibility, but by extension that works both ways.  And I do feel for people like Lou, not only for the reasons you laid out, but also because there is no dealer network, he has to see all of the oddballs that a dealer normally filters out.  If you get an icy reception from a dealer, you might look for another dealer.  Get that same reception from a manufacturer, and you might look for a different product.

woodsyi

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Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #18 on: 17 Oct 2014, 07:30 pm »
I have never had any issues with Lou or Dan in their rooms.  Lou has never refused to play anything I bring including opera.  I try to pick my time with opera arias since they can empty the room sometimes.  But I also defer to press type when they show up since they wield the mighty pen.  Internet direct companies can't afford to piss off the established press.  Positive review could be the difference in whether a customer pays attention to their product or not.

That's why this is so ironic that a potential customer was dissed to accommodate a reviewer.  I personally wouldn't feel slighted in this situation.  I leave a room when I can't stand the music or the sound is offensive to me.  If the room guy and others are yakking away within my earshot and bothering my listen, I just ask them to be quiet if I am liking the sound of the room.  If the sound is borderline, then the yakking is the deal breaker and I leave.  But I have been the yakker in some rooms; so I try to wait out.  People usually turn quiet when a person wants to listen seriously. 

Anyway, I am yakking on here.  To the OP, you are the customer and you can go anywhere to buy what you want.  But I tell you your experience in this instance with Lou is very out of character with everything I know of him.  I have hung out with him at dinners and bars.  He really is one of the nicest people and I don't own anything from him. 

S1NN3R

Re: Rmaf news
« Reply #19 on: 18 Oct 2014, 02:40 am »
When I was in kinder school, teachers always thought us how to wait in line, wait for our turn, don't push( as we do being kids), be polite. It got stuck into my daily life. It became part of my logic and ethics. I still feel cutting in line is rude specially for those people who's suppose to set a good example. My apology if anyone think its too dramatic.

I completely understand from the business stand point. Money is invested in the business. I also think consumers shouldn't take less credit for spending so much on their hard earned money which some of us takes years to save. My take is that consumers who recommends product he/she actually use is more credible than reviewers who get paid to do their job. At least IMHO.

For the record I am not holding any grudge. We all make mistakes. Its part of being human. Will I still do business with them in the future? Maybe.