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Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications

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ted_b

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Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« on: 3 Oct 2014, 02:20 pm »
I have done a pretty good job of isolating the worst ones from ever sending noise into my HT's audio system (i.e most are off when listening to music and all are off when watching a movie).  But, I have a question:
*  I currently use remote-controlled Lutron wall dimmers for 3 different zones (sets up several scenes).  Now that GE Link and Honeywell's multi-color Hue bulbs are wirelessly controlled would this reduce the potential for noise on the system, since the actual line is not being attenuated by dimmer switches (assuming one replaces the Lutron with wall switches) but instead it occurs at the bulb??
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Vulcan00

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Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #1 on: 3 Oct 2014, 02:30 pm »
That is an interesting question. I have encounter electrical inference with dimmer switches. I had to remove them. Would the bulb interfere? I think it would not. Now if it is some kind of high intensity bulb it might. I know I have had inference from other Hi- intensity bulbs, especially with guitar equipment, amps, petals etc.
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ted_b

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Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #2 on: 3 Oct 2014, 03:09 pm »
These are my thoughts too, and being LED these things draw like 15W.
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nickd

Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #3 on: 3 Oct 2014, 03:11 pm »
If the bulbs use a similar (although internal) circuit to reduce voltage thus light output, they will most likely put noise back in the electrical lines too. :|
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dminches

Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #4 on: 3 Oct 2014, 03:30 pm »
Ted, I assume the lights are on a different circuit than the audio/video equipment?
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ted_b

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Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #5 on: 3 Oct 2014, 03:39 pm »
Yes, they are.  :) 

It's really not a big issue with me; I have a very low noise floor.  But having the sex appeal of various Hue light/color settings, or inexpensive Link setups, would add a wow factor.
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youravhandyman

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Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #6 on: 3 Oct 2014, 05:52 pm »
I am a Lutron dealer and had to deal with the hum not only in customer's systems but the bulbs themselves.  I have yet to integrate any of the Philips Hue system but will be trying that soon.  The only thing I could think of for noise on the LED's would be from their transformer in the bulbs themselves.  I will be watching for the first review here quite anxiously if I do not try it first. 
If home integration is a possibility for you then I think the Hue system would be better than the GE system since multiple integration platforms have applications for the Hue system already. 
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Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #7 on: 4 Oct 2014, 10:33 pm »
I have three Lutron zones in my room. At some settings the actual filaments in the bulbs "sing", which is quite audible.

When you say the bulbs are wireless, are you saying that they're dimmable by a device as opposed to the wall switch?
That would be awesome. You're not kidding when you talk about the sex factor of not only the convenience, but they change colors too?
Yea....that's just cool. Shiiiit dawg.  8)
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dukecv

Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #8 on: 8 Nov 2014, 06:36 am »
I'm an electrician and was wondering if the dimmer is even rated for an led load. Certain dimmers work with certain bulbs. The Phillips hue bulb, from what I understand, would pretty much have a wireless network receiver in the bulbs themselves or have a stand alone controller like a dmx controller. Dimmers are more or less a variable resistor that takes the voltage down using the gate of a triac. They could possibly cause a hum, not absolutely certain but I've heard it on lighting before. Dimmers also get warm cause of the resistor getting warm. I do know that there are certain dimmers made for led bulbs though. Led dimmers can be used for incandescent bulbs but led dimmers are usually more money. The graffik eye from lutron is supposed to provide real-time cycle-by-cycle compensation for incoming line voltage variations including changes in RMS voltage (plus or minus 2 percent change in RMS voltage/cycle), frequency shifts (plus or minus 2 Hz change in frequency/second), dynamic harmonics, and line noise. Are you sure of what's all connected to the branch circuit? So whether they actually put noise on the line or not, who knows. I suppose make sure your power conditioning equipment is doing what it claims.
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dukecv

Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #9 on: 8 Nov 2014, 06:42 am »
Also led bulbs have drivers, much like fluorescents have ballasts. I think the safest way to have quiet line noise is to get something like an isolation transformer. Or just use good power conditioning upstream and use incandescent bulbs. Personally I'd prolly do a lot of low voltage led lighting on a separate branch circuit.
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Wayner

Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #10 on: 8 Nov 2014, 02:57 pm »
Modern day dimmers use a triac solid state device that is a high speed switcher. It turns on and off the half cycle of the wave form of the AC sine wave. This is accomplished by shortening the "on" time of the half wave, so the more you dim, the less of the half wave cycle is "on". As you dim an incandescent lamp more and more, the filament tends to start dancing inside of the vacuum of the bulb and starts to "sing". This is bad for the audiophile, but also bad for the filament, because it will shorten the life span of the bulb as the tungsten will work harden and break.

CL dimmers are the new, modern day version and have special circuitry that will handle incandenscent, dimmable CFLs and LEDs. I have one in my vinyl room that controls 3 Toshiba Par 30 short neck lamps in recessed cans in the ceiling. The CL dimmer allows me to dim the LEDs almost to an off position, just short of "killing" the lamp. The LED is much happier with the CL dimmer, as is the case for almost all new lighting sources.

Wayner
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Wayner

Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #11 on: 8 Nov 2014, 03:01 pm »
One other noteworthy item to mention is that my 2700°K color temperature of the LED lamps does not change when you dim them like an incandescent will. I still have incandescent lamps in the great room and those wall sconces are on regular dimmers. I like the effect because I can get the lamps to almost a red color at extreme dimming, and adds to the atmosphere when watching TV or listening to digital music. The lower level is all LED with the exception of the great room....
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dukecv

Re: Many of us have used dimmers in our HT applications
« Reply #12 on: 8 Nov 2014, 06:32 pm »
Yea the CL dimmers are a nice dimmer for sure. I just installed a bunch in a house. They were pass and Seymour though. They looked pretty good with their little green indicator. They guy was certain he wanted the decora version over the toggle. But as for the topic I really couldn't say 100% either way as to whether it creates line noise. I'm sure any device or load within the neutral return would have something on it. I wouldn't think it'd be much. I'd make sure the actuall rough wiring is descent first.
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