Vandersteen Carbon Tweeter CT - Worth the Upgrade?

bluepearl · « **on:** 2 Oct 2014, 12:01 am »

I have been trying to decide whether to upgrade my 2CE sig II aniversary to either Treo or Quatro, I already run stereo subs so I'm leaning toward the Treo, I'm now struggling with the CT upgrade option, seems pretty steep for a tweeter upgrade. I recently spoke with John at Audioconnection and he spoke very highly of the CT, he felt the CT Treo sounded smother, more extended and warmer than the standard version.

I would appreciate feedback from anyone else who has heard either the Treo CT or Quatro CT, did you feel the improvement is worth $1500?

Thanks.

JackD · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Oct 2014, 01:41 am »

When I ordered my Treo's in January before the CT version was officially announced it was only a $500 upgrade. Since then the speakers have gone up in price and the upgrade has tripled. After years of holding pricing upgrades to reasonable levels it seems that Richard has decided to follow the rest of the pack. For what it is worth even at $500 my dealer did not push it.

Wig · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Oct 2014, 01:53 am »

For that type of money you could upgrade your cables or even a used tube integrated amplifier! My Vandies sounded beautiful on a Rogue Cronus...

Wig

jriggy · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Oct 2014, 02:15 am »

If you can afford quatro over the treo then do it. The quatro should have more control.

rpf · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Oct 2014, 02:18 am »

I spent a lot of time listening to a friend's 5As and always felt they were let down by their metal tweeters. But then I've never heard a metal tweeter I liked: they just sound unnatural to me. Whereas a fiber tweeter sounds far more real and beautiful. So to me it would be worth the upgrade, although I don't understand why the price difference should be so much. $500 I get. $1500???

JackD · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Oct 2014, 02:40 am »

The Quatro is a different animal altogether as it has powered subs built-in which the OP like I didn't need. Since I ordered my Treo's, Richard has hired a new business manager, Shane Buettner from one of the on-line magazine sites. He is responsible from what I can tell for the new website and maybe the new pricing model too.

JackD · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Oct 2014, 03:04 am »

To the OP, you need to go listen to the two different versions of the Treo before you just plunk down $1500. John probably has both versions in-house so you could hear both. Only your ears will know the difference. As I said my dealer, who has been a Vandersteen dealer since 1998, didn't push the upgrade even when it was only $500. He had the full line on display and had heard both tweeters.

bluepearl · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Oct 2014, 12:57 pm »

Unfortunately Audioconnection is not my local dealer and my local dealer only has the standard Treo and Quatro in stock so I'm unsure I will be able to demo prior to purchase without a substantial drive. I agree regarding fiber tweeter vs. metal tweeters, I've always preferred soft dome tweeters, they are sweeter and sound more natural to me, which is why I'm considering this upgrade.

I'm a little unsure of the actual differences between the two models, on paper it appears as though the only difference between the std. Treo and the CT Treo is the tweeter coating, I believe John mentioned there is a different crossover but the website doesn't reference this. I pulled this tweeter spec from the Vandersteen website;

Treo Specifications
Tweeter
1” Exclusive Dual-Chamber, Transmission-Line Loaded, Ceramic-Coated Alloy Dome with Ferrofluid Voice-Coil Cooling

Treo CT Specifications
Tweeter
1” Exclusive Aerodynamic Dual-Chamber, Transmission-Line Loaded Carbon Dome with Ferrofluid Voice-Coil Cooling

bluepearl · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Oct 2014, 10:07 pm »

I spoke with Richard about the carbon tweeter, he explained that the carbon tweeter is not a coating, the tweeter is molded out of carbon (solid carbon), he explained that the technology is based on the tweeter in the model 7 and that the std Treo tweeter is more similar to the 2CE tweeter (ceramic coated alloy) but with a better crossover with "much more expensive parts". I am leaning toward the CT upgrade option...

Drew769 · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 08:48 pm »

I just bought a pair of Treos from Audioconnection. I had the 2CE Sigs before that. Like the OP, I have a pair of 2WQs, which I'm using with the Treos.

The Treos sound AMAZING with the 2WQs, better than the Quatros IMO. The Treo (standard) is the same speaker complement and cabinetry as the original Quatro Wood, just minus the powered subs. In the place of the powered subs is a passive sub.

By running the high passes, though, the Treos are able to let the main amp (or amps) do their job powering only the mids and highs. That is part of the reason why they sound so great with the dual 2WQs.

John had said that the CT option is nice, but not essential. I don't think Vandersteen is playing games here - those CT drivers are expensive to make. I'm sure it is a nice upgrade, but the question becomes if you really want an $8,000 Treo. On the other hand, you might spend $1500 on an upgrade at some other point that makes this big of a difference and consider that a bargain.

Maybe another option is to sell the two 2WQs, and use that against the purchase price of a pair of Quatro Wood CTs...you'll be just a little more than the cost of the Treo CTs.

Honestly, though, the standard tweeters are from the 5A, and they are superb. If you were not comparing them, you'd never give it a second thougt. And the speakers themselves are such a huge leap from the 2CEs, you won't believe it. I'm hearing my collection again for the first time, and I never thought I'd be saying that.

JackD · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Oct 2014, 11:14 pm »

Drew

Are you crossing the Treo's equal to the input impedance or one down?

Drew769 · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Oct 2014, 08:28 pm »

Quote from: JackD on 8 Oct 2014, 11:14 pm

Drew

Are you crossing the Treo's equal to the input impedance or one down?

I am crossing them equal to imput impedence right now. The Rogue has an input imp. of 100 ohms, and I am running 100 ohm X-2s. I will be switching them next week, however, with a set of M5-HP boxes. I'll be able to experiment with different values to see if they intergrate better. (They sound pretty good now.)

bluepearl · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Oct 2014, 01:14 pm »

Drew, Thanks for your feedback, I have been seriously debating whether I should put the money toward the Quatro wood instead of the CT Treo. I'm also considering a used pair of 5A's... I wonder how the new Quatro CT would perform against 5A's ?

C17FXR · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Oct 2014, 02:57 pm »

Quote from: bluepearl on 10 Oct 2014, 01:14 pm

I'm also considering a used pair of 5A's... I wonder how the new Quatro CT would perform against 5A's ?

If I'm not mistaken Mr. Vandersteen has been quoted as saying except for the base performance the Quatro CT is better than the 5A's.
With that being said I've considered moving up from my 3A Sig/ 2Wq combo to Quatro CT/ 2Wq combo. The low extension of the 2Wq's combined with the base adjustablity of the Quatro CT. I still need to do some calculations to see if my room has enough cubic feet to handle such a combination.
If not then my plans are to added the Treo CT's then have my 2Wq's upgraded with the new 11 band adjustable eq that Vandersteen is working on for the 2Wq's.

You know, now that I think of it, I better get my new room setup first, still moving into my new home.
Keep the information coming guys this is a good read and information.

Regards:

bluepearl · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Nov 2014, 07:02 pm »

Regarding the Quatro CT/ 2Wq combo, given that the Quatro has built in powered subs is there a point to also running the 2WQ's? In doing so you would need to bypass the built in subs, no? If so wouldn't you be better off with the Treo's?

mgsboedmisodpc2 · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Nov 2014, 12:38 pm »

C17FXR Wrote
"2Wq's upgraded with the new 11 band adjustable eq that Vandersteen is working on for the 2Wq's"

Will this be an internal or external EQ for the 2Wq

C17FXR · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Nov 2014, 02:04 pm »

Gentlemen
My comments were more thinking out load and trying to stir up a conversation. I had asked Richard years ago when he came up with the 11 band eq if he had any thoughts about adding it to thew 2Wq and he didn't think was a good idea. I will need to go dig up his reply to give the most accurate info, but anyway a few years later I seen him make reference to it so not sure if it will come to fruition or not.

Also I had read that the Quatro's were designed to work well within a certain size room, not sure the cubic size right off hand.
But there was a question on the Q&A about using the Quatro's with the 2Wq's and Mr. Vandersteen's reply was that the person needed to contact him concerning the issue and he would instruct him on how to implement the arrangement. I had ponder the idea of how well this would work having the linear response of the 2Wq's powering the room with the adjustability of the base from the Quatro's.

I will dig these responses up and post the responses here to give people more fodder to ponder on.

As if we don't already have enough to worry about.

Hope this doesn't keep someone up at night.

ctsooner · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Mar 2015, 08:40 am »

Old thread, but topic still germane. Treo CT vs Treo..... The price diff is only 1k now right? Either way, go listen to the CT. I have the regular Treo's and they are amazing in my room. I own an Ayre AX5/20, AQ cabling balanced throughout and an Empirical Audio DAC with every upgrade and upgraded power supply. I run a 2009 Mac Mini server that was set up by Steve Nugent of Empirical with a large SSD and larger RAM along with his Paul Haynes designed linear power supply a synchromesh to hook the TV, Apple TV and Blueray and his short block for the USB cable. I run a Basis 1400 with a Heed Quasar phono stage.

I"m feeding my Treo's about as good a signal as money can buy on the digital side and my analog is no slouch either. They are musical and neutral. There is no tube or SS sound, just music. I now FEEL when I listen and I love it. The stage is deep, wide, even high when it's in the recording and nearly everything on my server is high rez and of the best recorded stuff. I'm still working on my room.

I spoke with Johnny about upgrades to cable and also to power supply etc... and I have always been in the camp of upgrade the components first. Major dollars will make a bigger difference with component upgrades. In listening to the CT version I agree. I can easily spend 2k plus just for two cables or a power supply unit (and that's on the lower end) and not get any cables or I can upgrade in a speaker line. The new Treo now sounds much more like the Quatro other than not getting bass you can dial in and it won't go as deep. You won't be lacking in most rooms. I have some recorded bass that goes very low. I'm not sure how low as I don't use meters when I listen to music, but the Treo can move the house on these tracks. The dogs hate it, lol. I'm saving up to get the Quatro's though as I want to be able to dial my bass in. That's just me, but if I didn't make that decision, I'd be upgrading to the CT version as it's a no brainer when you hear both.

If anyone has interest in my Treo's (they aren't that old and are in cherry) I'm in CT and you are welcome to come listen and buy them, lol.

mgsboedmisodpc2 · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Apr 2015, 07:40 pm »

bluepearl which filters are you using with your subs? it is those same filters that may lower the resolution seen by your speakers unless you upgrade to the model 7 filters M7-HP if you go with the CT opt

ctsooner · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Apr 2015, 02:08 am »

Can you use the 7's crossovers with the 5 CT or Quatro Wood CT's? Price difference?