Where is Everyone

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Roger A. Modjeski

Where is Everyone
« on: 12 Aug 2014, 05:14 am »
We had a lot of participation here a few weeks ago with fastfreds post on audio reviewers and fuses. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127160.0

Where is everyone?

Guy 13

Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #1 on: 12 Aug 2014, 08:47 am »
We had a lot of participation here a few weeks ago with fastfreds post on audio reviewers and fuses. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127160.0

Where is everyone?

Hi Roger.
I don't post much on this subject,
because I don't hear much difference /improvement between different type/make of cables,
interconnects, tubes, capacitors and finally those audio fuses that I never tried
only because they are crazy expensive.
If they were, let's say 5 USD each, I am not narrow minded, I would try them,
but I am quite sure I would not hear any improvement.
The only items for which I heard a noticeable improvement (Not huge) was my EH el84 tubes
and the Omega 7F over the Audio Nirvana extended range drivers.
Some changes in my equipment, was not an improvement, but just a different sound.
I think that regardless if you Roger the expert, the person that can design and build amplifier,
do not hear any improvement on an audio fuse, then what's the point fighting over it.
Anyway, after saying that I don't hear much improvement from one item to the other,
then I guess my opinion is not worth much.
Does it ???

Guy 13

corndog71

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Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #2 on: 12 Aug 2014, 03:20 pm »
We had a lot of participation here a few weeks ago with fastfreds post on audio reviewers and fuses. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127160.0

Where is everyone?

I'm still here.  I stop by the forum several times a day.  I guess I don't have much to discuss at the moment.  The debates can get tiring.  You make a great case against the boutique fuses. 

Actually, I have one story I'd like to share.

This past weekend my girlfriend's son's girlfriend, Leslie, 20, visited our home and had dinner with us.  I had my main stereo warmed up and ready to play and after dinner I invited Leslie to play something from her iPhone on it.  I have a Pure i20 dock with 30-pin-to-lightning converter plug so it was easy to plug her phone into my system.  The dock sends the digital signal to a Musical Fidelity V-DAC II.  She was instantly entranced by the music and amazed by all of the details she had been missing via her ear buds.  She was also thoroughly impressed that I built most of my gear myself.  My girlfriend's son was less enthusiastic but then he's oddly not very materialistic.  Still, it's nice to see some of today's youth recognize good sound when they hear it.  :thumb:
 

Carl V

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Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #3 on: 12 Aug 2014, 05:33 pm »
forums generate traffic as a result of debates
new products or explanations of products.

for instance in another thread a good segue
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=126832.0
would be,
 what is done to an RM-10 to make
it a MONO amp? Why would a person choose to
do this as opposed to looking for an RM-9 or RM200?

there is/was 2 RM-10 mk II for sale in an Audio
estate sale just recently. Now just one. Just sayin'

steve f

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Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #4 on: 12 Aug 2014, 07:32 pm »
Roger, I suspect some people may have gone into hiding. I'm a very long term audiophile, although I dislike the term. Too many people like to buy tweaks. Dealers make money doing mods. Even manufacturers support, or ignore the snake oil that has become imbedded in audio. I guess the laws of physics enter an alternative audio universe where they simply don't apply.

I'm tired of bi-wiring, fancy power cords, interconnects made of silver, speaker cables that can be used to jump start locomotives, green markers, magic pucks, etc. I could go on for the rest of the day. None of these things work. The proponents of these devices are naive or dishonest. Maybe I'm getting cranky as I age.

(My favorite commentary concerning the current state of audio was written by Don Morrison.  Mr. Morrison wrote a letter to the editor of The Audio Critic that can be read in PDF in issue 25. I encourage others to go to The Audio Critic website, then go to back issue 25, and read Don's letter. It's priceless.)

Unfortunately stating facts doesn't work well in audio. There is a belief system that would never exist in other hobbies or industries.

Roger, thanks for being honest, and trying to educate the circle.

Steve

Edit: I'm done ranting.   8)

fastfred

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Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #5 on: 13 Aug 2014, 01:38 am »
We had a lot of participation here a few weeks ago with fastfreds post on audio reviewers and fuses. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127160.0

Where is everyone?

 Hello Roger:

First of all I want to thank you for your compliment on the success of my post on the future
of hi/end audio & a rant on honesty in reviewing. I think I’ve listed the evolution of all the different posts
on tuning fuses below. It happens that when you posted the Tuning Fuses thread I recalled reading
the same post myself and like you wondered why no mention had been made about how well said fuses
did their job ie. the protection of an electronic device from china/syndrome. That’s when I pm’d you about
posting my rant.

I have to apologize for lack of attention to the forums, with the explanation that I was beginning to
suffer from burnout or maybe the correct word is confusion. I was taking an hour or 2 during the
course of the day to review all the threads I’ve been participating in & found myself responding to replies
from one forum lets say B). I think in one or two cases I may have responded in the wrong thread lets
say c).

 A)Tuning Fuses

  B)The future of hi/end audio & a rant on honesty in reviewing (tuning fuses)

  C)Debunking Tuning Fuses et al.

  D)Responses from makers and magazines on Tuning Fuses

Sorry about the length of my reply. Please consider the following when you read the rest of my reply.

In the interest of streamlining the tuning fuses issue. I’m wondering if the rant should be closed and a new
topic started to continue monitoring the online audiophile press.
Proposed new title: The Future of Hi/End Audio……Honesty in the Audiophile Press ( topic of your choice )

I think when I first started the the rant on honesty in reviewing, ( “tuning fuses” ) was for me a topic to start an
ongoing general discussion regarding snake oil type products in general. I also mentioned that it would be nice to
find an online or print journal which did honest reviews of audio equipment & lamented the fact that reviews from
any free online review journal which received advertising from audio manufacturers couldn’t trusted.

During my confusion/burnout period, I browsed the net for audiophile sites which I wasn’t aware of before, and reviewed
ones I hadn’t been on for awhile. If there are those out there who think Roger was picking on any one check out this link
to Arthur Salvatore’s web site High End Audio ( http://www.high-endaudio.com ). Another site about honest audio reporting
is Roger Russell’s wonderfull web page about McIntosh Labs. ( http://www.roger-russell.com ) this part of this site is a must
read for anyone shopping for  a source of info on wire & wire technology a must read >( http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm ).  < a must read!!!!!
For those who don’t know, Roger was a design engineer for McIntosh Labs. McIntosh labs by the way is a company where
science & honesty in advertising went hand in hand (my opinion), at least in Roger Russell's day they were. The essays in that wire link
give a complete history of speaker wire & audiophile cabling in general from McIntosh Labs point of view all the way back to the 1960’s.
An audio circle built around R. Russell’s & A. Salvatore’s sites might be the way to approach the dishonest reviewing.

Another thing I learned is that no amount of scientific proof seems to work on those brainwashed by the audiophile press.
If you read back issues of The Audio Critic ( check their PDF back issues ) it seems their raison/d’etre was the debunking of audiophile
myths. Their back issue downloads go back to 1991. I also know that Audio Critic has some skeleton’s in it’s closet. A good read nevertheless

Here’s an excerpt from their their site I find to be quite comical.

quote:
Should a speaker system or an amplifier be reviewed like a restaurant, or like an engineering design?
Compare this:
† † † The mussels were a little rubbery in texture, but the Chablis sauce was beautifully herbed. My
companion ordered the trout, which I also tasted and found seductively mesquite-perfumed though
slightly underdone. The accompanying asparagus tips were lightly drizzled with an amusing vinaigrette.
with this:
† † † The highs were somewhat chalky, but the upper midrange was wonderfully liquid, and there was
palpable air around the woodwinds. The lower mids had satisfactory bloom; the bass, however, could have
benefited from a little more rhythm and pace. Front-to-back depth yielded a Row G perspective.

unquote:
                     

                                        ...................................... Fred Petersen ( fastfred )

jarcher

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Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #6 on: 13 Aug 2014, 02:25 am »
Agreed on all the above : two many topics covering the same thing + people in general polarizing themselves into their preconceived positions, so there was no real learning or interesting discussion to be had after a certain point.  Aside from learning that boutique fuses may not be suitable / safe in some applications, didn't bring away much else, so stopped "tuning" in - bad pun intended. 

Roger A. Modjeski

Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #7 on: 13 Aug 2014, 04:43 am »
Thanks to everyone for checking in with your thoughts. My intention was to provide technical information about the fuses ability to protect equipment and to lend some numbers to how much effect they could have electrically. I did my best to refute technical with technical. The makers of these fuses claim technical things that are simply not true. If they would simply say "hey if you buy this fuse it will make you happy because it is magic" I would have nothing to say. However this is not what they do.

Because fastfred's main point was The future of hi/end audio & a rant on honesty in reviewing (tuning fuses) I think we focused too much on the fuses, however the claims made by so many reviewers were so over the top one could hardly ignore them. Where are the editors of these journals? Why are these journals promoting fuses to such an extent. They make it sound like you are foolish to not buy them.

Those who want to believe that electronics operates some other way than it operates are welcome to their thoughts. I've been reading a book about how Michael Faraday discovered electromagnetism, invented the transformer and laid the work for the Dynamo. He had to go up against theories by Ampere, Oersted and several others. However, his ideas worked while the others didn't.

Does anyone know an online journal that looks at things more technically and logically?

watercourse

Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #8 on: 15 Aug 2014, 03:06 am »
Agreed on all the above : two many topics covering the same thing + people in general polarizing themselves into their preconceived positions, so there was no real learning or interesting discussion to be had after a certain point.  Aside from learning that boutique fuses may not be suitable / safe in some applications, didn't bring away much else, so stopped "tuning" in - bad pun intended.

+1

Being a scientist, I'll say that having preconceived ideas in the absence of empirical observations is akin to faith - even if that faith is in what others have supported through lab testing. But, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so don't really care to change another person's opinion.

I haven't checked in because I've been out in the field collecting data for the past 9 days.

bdp24

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Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #9 on: 15 Aug 2014, 06:37 am »
Roger's means of discussing the electrical capabilities of the Hi-Fi fuses (there is now another company making a similar fuse, though this one is "liquid filled"---!) is much different than Peter's in The Audio Critic. Peter got very personal, and I found him quite obnoxious, no matter how correct the point he was making. Another good source of engineering insight has been Frank Van Alstine's Audio Basics, which I believe are available to read on the AVA website. Speaking of tweaks---I'd be interested in your view of tube dampers, Roger. Both the rubbery slip on type, and the clamp-on type like those marketed by Herbie's Footers.

Diamond Dog

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Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #10 on: 13 Sep 2014, 08:32 pm »


Where is everyone?  Maybe they're reading their PM's...

D.D.

werd

Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #11 on: 13 Sep 2014, 10:07 pm »
Well you locked the thread and then went and got yourself restricted. So it (the traffic) kinda got halted by you. I know whats its like to be restricted. I am not laughing just replying to your question.

Freo-1

Re: Where is Everyone
« Reply #12 on: 16 Sep 2014, 04:20 pm »
We had a lot of participation here a few weeks ago with fastfreds post on audio reviewers and fuses. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127160.0

Where is everyone?

Very busy with work.  Have not had any time for Audio of late.