[dgarratt]

Wondering whether you've had experiences where you've set-up your system in a very, very precise and measured way, and then found out that you had a "small sweet spot" where the music was undeniably, unabashedly, uncompromisingly AMAZING - but outside of that sweet spot, the music was great, but not like it is inside the sweet spot?

I'm in the process of deciding what furniture to buy and how to place it in my room. I really want two single chairs about 1m apart as opposed to 1 single chair dead center. How wide is the sweet spot in your system? How wide should a sweet spot be?

[Guy 13]

Wondering whether you've had experiences where you've set-up your system in a very, very precise and measured way, and then found out that you had a "small sweet spot" where the music was undeniably, unabashedly, uncompromisingly AMAZING - but outside of that sweet spot, the music was great, but not like it is inside the sweet spot?

How wide is the sweet spot in your system? How wide should a sweet spot be?

Hi dgarratt.
My sweet spot is no more than a few inches on each side of my head.
Outside that sweet spot, I loose or should I say: I compromise the sound stage.
When moving my head on the left or right side, it happens gradually.
I loose the focus of the orchestra.
However, the sound quality is still there, I still have tons of micro details.
For me the sweet spot is not of great importance,
because I am sitting still enjoying the music anyway.

Guy 13

[WireNut]

 My sweet spot is about 6 feet away. Sound is not very wide, but it's deep. Speakers are DIY MTM's with subs, bi-amped.
I use to listen at 13 feet, but closer is better in my system, so I changed my living room around for 6 feet listening.
TV had to go, living room is set up for my audio system only.

[Guy 13]

Hi garratt.
I forgot to mention that my speakers are 5' apart
and are 5' from my sitting position.



Guy 13

[dgarratt]

Hi garratt.
I forgot to mention that my speakers are 5' apart
and are 5' from my sitting position.



Guy 13

Thanks Guy, you're system looks amazing, I love the room also. After I sort out all the furniture i'll have to look at some room treatment as well.

[werd]

I like it too ^^^^^

[Guy 13]

I like it too ^^^^^

Thanks dgarratt and werd.
That's nice of you to say.
The only thing missing is some nice looking room treatment stuff,
like bass traps and wall absorbers.
I saw that some manufacturers offer a service of photo/art transfer onto the absorbers.
If I would go that way, I would choose Asian art works, of course.
But for now, what you see on the wall, is the only stuff I can afford,
still not that bad, if you like Asian/Vietnamese stuff.
If I was to redo again, I might go with white speaker enclosures.
I love white and red colors.
Thanks again.

Guy 13

I am surprised that Louis (Omega) did not comment on the look of my listening room,
after all, I'm using his Omega 7F and they sound fantastic.
That's a compliment to him.

[Jazzman53]

My speakers have a very pronounced sweet spot about one foot wide.  I've concluded that highly directional speakers giving a miniscule sweet spot give the most pinpoint 3D imaging and purest sound (flat panel ESL's for example), but their miniscule sweet spot puts your head in a vice-- not good for parties unless your guests are all sitting in your lap!  The physics are such that you can have spooky imaging and purity or you can have a wider sweet spot but not both... there's no free lunch here.

So most of us (not me) opt for wide dispersion speakers giving a wide sweet spot with lesser imaging and purity.  Both have their advantages but you can choose only one. 

[Guy 13]

My speakers have a very pronounced sweet spot about one foot wide.  I've concluded that highly directional speakers giving a miniscule sweet spot give the most pinpoint 3D imaging and purest sound (flat panel ESL's for example), but their miniscule sweet spot puts your head in a vice-- not good for parties unless your guests are all sitting in your lap!  The physics are such that you can have spooky imaging and purity or you can have a wider sweet spot but not both... there's no free lunch here.

So most of us (not me) opt for wide dispersion speakers giving a wide sweet spot with lesser imaging and purity.  Both have their advantages but you can choose only one.

Hi Jazzman53.
Of course, a narrow sweet spot is like having his had in a vise,
wider sweet spot makes your listening more enjoyable,
because you don't have to stand still like a soldier to fully enjoy
the qualities of your system.
Quote: not good for parties unless your guests are all sitting in your lap!
Un quote:
Well it depends who's at your party, I don't know about you, but for me,
if it's a bunch of nice chicks, I wont mind if they all sit on my lap.
My sweet spot is very narrow,
but I have tweaking the position of my speakers
to widen that narrow sweet spot.
I hope you don't mind, me jumping in your post like that,
without being invited.
(Sorry, I could not resist to make the chick joke.)

Guy 13
 

[Jazzman53]

Point well taken Guy.   Oh yeah... my hybrid flat panel stats blow women's panties right off!   
(my GF says that could happen anyway, but I'm just saying...)


 

[Guy 13]

Point well taken Guy.   Oh yeah... my hybrid flat panel stats blow women's panties right off!   
(my GF says that could happen anyway, but I'm just saying...)

 

Guy 13

[Jazzman53]

Seriously though; there might actually be a way to have your cake and eat it too... not simultaneously, but by merely flipping a switch to control the dispersion pattern. 

Most DIY electrostats (mine, for example) use perforated metal stators, and you can either make them flat or curved for very narrow or slightly wider dispersion.  However, stators can also be made from straight wires in a vertical array. 

Wire-stator stats can be electrically segmented such that a center group of wires receive the music signals slightly ahead of wire groups on either side.  The effect is that the projected wave-front becomes slightly cylindrical, rather than flat, and the sweet resulting spot can be as much as 30 degrees wider than the same flat panel with all wires receiving the music signals simultaneously.  Many DIY esl's do use this arrangement for a wider sweet spot but I've not heard of anyone making them switchable from narrow to wider dispersion. 

I see no reason why wire-stator ESL's could not be configured for two or more switchable dispersion patterns.
You would need to EQ the panel differently for each pattern of course, but that's easily doable if you have a digital EQ with memory (I do).  In which, case, you could merely flip a switch to select wide dispersion by sequential time-delaying the signals to the stator wires, and select the appropriate EQ curve in the digital EQ's memory. 

Things to ponder...

[WireNut]

Jazzman53,

I think you have a thread on your speaker build here somewhere?
Can you post a link to it here in this thread ?

Thanks,

[Jazzman53]

Jazzman53,

I think you have a thread on your speaker build here somewhere?
Can you post a link to it here in this thread ?
s\
Thanks,

Yes, I think I did post a write up somewhere here.  I didn't mean to high-jack this thread away from discussions of sweet spot to DIY stats but it looks like that's what I've done so I will now just refer you to my DIY ESL website, which has the latest how-to information and sources:
http://jazzman-esl-page.blogspot.com/

[WireNut]

Oops, yeah sorry, but thank you.

 I’ve tried to widen the sound stage of my MTM speakers by using 2” thick acoustic foam in different locations in the room with some effect, but I’ve realized
I can tweak all I want but in the end it’s all about the drivers dispersion and the front baffle. I can't or don't know how to force drivers to throw a wider sound stage.


Guy13,
I like your room and setup also. Very modern looking.

 

[Jazzman53]

Hi garratt.
I forgot to mention that my speakers are 5' apart
and are 5' from my sitting position.



Guy 13

Guy, I love your room too.  Are those homebuilt speakers?  The red/gray colors go well together.  I've grown to love dipole bass-- much cleaner I think and doesn't excite those nasty room modes like conventional subs often do.

[S Clark]

Oops, yeah sorry, but thank you.

 I’ve tried to widen the sound stage of my MTM speakers by using 2” thick acoustic foam in different locations in the room with some effect, but I’ve realized
I can tweak all I want but in the end it’s all about the drivers dispersion and the front baffle. I can't or don't know how to force drivers to throw a wider sound stage.

In my case, the room treatment that affected sound stage width was diffusers between the speakers and just in front and outside of them (more so than at first reflection point  ).  I used Dave Elledge's products.  He has been very successful with treating the hotel rooms at the RMAF over the years and the $ was reasonable.
Oh, and my sweet spot is a couple of feet wide, dropping off imaging after that

[Guy 13]

Yes, I think I did post a write up somewhere here.  I didn't mean to high-jack this thread away from discussions of sweet spot to DIY stats but it looks like that's what I've done so I will now just refer you to my DIY ESL website, which has the latest how-to information and sources:
http://jazzman-esl-page.blogspot.com/

Hi jazzman53.
I went on your blogspot above
and I was surprised and amazed by your speaker building skill.
Those look really nice
and your site is very well documented.
If I had the $$$
I would sent you some $$$ to build one pair for me
and then, I would know what electrostatic speakers mean.
Never heard any ES speakers, but would sure like to.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Oops, yeah sorry, but thank you.

 I’ve tried to widen the sound stage of my MTM speakers by using 2” thick acoustic foam in different locations in the room with some effect, but I’ve realized
I can tweak all I want but in the end it’s all about the drivers dispersion and the front baffle. I can't or don't know how to force drivers to throw a wider sound stage.


Guy13,
I like your room and setup also. Very modern looking.

Hi WireNut.
Thanks.
For my set up, I had something quite different in mind,
but money restriction force me to use what was available in the house.
As for modern looking, I would say/prefer to say:
Asian looking listening room and it will pretty much stay the same for
the time I will be stuck here.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Guy, I love your room too.  Are those homebuilt speakers?  The red/gray colors go well together.  I've grown to love dipole bass-- much cleaner I think and doesn't excite those nasty room modes like conventional subs often do.

Hi (Again) Jazzman53.
(The 53 stands for your age I suppose, even if you look younger on the picture of yourself, unless you asked your younger brother to be you. )
Yes, another of my continuous stupid jokes... )
The idea of H frame Open Baffle dipole speakers came from Danny Ritchie from who I bought eight woofers and four plate amplifiers.
I've use half of my purchase to do what you see here and the other half is for a future project that might be a U frame instead of a H frame.
The enclosures I designed myself from Danny original V1 speakers and got the cabinets made by a local Vietnamese cabinet maker.
He made for me four different sets of cabinets.
I choose to get them painted in bright red,
because that's my favorite color and red is popular with Asian stuff.
Up to now, those are the best sounding OBD that I ever owned.
Thanks for your nice comments.

Guy 13