[Wayner]

This started out last weekend when I got a couple of records (new) in the mail and they were somewhat noisy. So I did my usual washing in the laundry tub and got no results. On a whim, I got out one of my un-powered turntable platters and threw the offending record on it. I then went and got my cheapie jewelers loop (from Rat Shack) and got down and dirty with the record grooves. There they were, little tiny globs of whatever still stuck in the grooves.

So I went and got 2 other tools, my Zerostat and my shop vac. I zapped the record (about 12" away, slowly pulling the trigger, slowly releasing the trigger) and then turned on the shop vac, using my nice upholstery brush (very soft) and gave the record a couple of passes, using my free hand to rotate the platter and keep the record on the platter, due to the strength of the shop vac.

I put the record on the table (Pink Floyd-DSOTM) and was completely shocked. Not only was there absolutely no pops and clicks of any kind, the texture of the music changed..........

So, I did an old copy of the Cars - Panorama using the same procedure. This was a life changing event. It was like listening to the highest possible digital format with no background noise at all. Again, the music had a different texture to it.



Now I have done this process to almost one shelf of records. What I have listened to so far have the same effect.

With all of this, I have to draw to some kind of conclusions. First, Perhaps I have done something to my vinyl playback system in order for the profound change to occur. Or it's the dry conditions we are having. Or, the Zerostat actually is working. And perhaps dry vacuuming is way more effective then trying to clean records with liquids.

I've been spinning records for at least 45 years and I can't say that I have ever seen the likes of something like this, so I would like others to try it if you have the same tools that I have.

For now, I think that wet cleaning is probably not very effective. It makes the greasy finger prints go away, but those prints are on the surface of the record, not in the grooves. I also suspect that a RCM vacuum is not powerful enough to capture all of the junk that is in the grooves.

The Zerostat is neutralizing the static charge of the vinyl. That helps to release the grip of the junk to the side walls of the record grooves, liquids and brushes can't really reach into the grooves, and even if they did, they would be so weak they could not dis-lodge debris from the grooves anyway. The static charge of the record is simply too strong to allow the debris to be released. The shop vac wins.....

Anyone else ever try this????

[S Clark]

Just one of the advantages of using a record cleaning fluid is the removal of static charges when using a mostly water solvent.  Add a cleaner, a fine boar bristle paint brush trimmed to make it stiffer to get into the grooves, and try your vacuum again.  The Zerostat will not be needed. 

[Wayner]

Apparently, you did not read my post. Your suggestions don't really work......

[S Clark]

Sorry to intrude  on your version of reality.  Yes  I read your post. Glad your procedure works.

[rcag_ils]

Wayner, which mall did you get the "DSOTM" new?

What brush did you use to keep the vac from scratching your records?

[Wayner]

I have the newest 180 gram pressing of DSOTM, from Music Direct. I also bought WYWH, Division Bell (2 record set) and The Wall, all remastered by Doug Sax: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-45784-pink-floyd-dark-side-of-the-moon-180g-lp.aspx

It's not my version of reality. It's just plain reality. I approach problems scientifically. I've used many different types of record wash formula thru the years, like alcohol, Scrubbing Bubbles, vinegar, soap and water, and many other types of washes. I've used many types of brushes to also loosen the debris in the grooves. All were, at best, partially good, but none are as effective as dry vacuuming with my shop vac. I will say this, that it may not possible to get the records any cleaner then they are right now.

I am using a Hoover attachment brush that has about 3/8" long hairs and they are fairly soft. There does not seem to be any scratching of the records at all, and certainly, not audible. From now on, this will be my new cleaning procedure for new and used records that come into the house. At this point, I'm not sure if they will need another deep cleaning like this again. I still use my Disc Washer brush dampened with a mist of alcohol/water on the spinning platter, just before playing them.

I guess if you use a brush with too stiff of bristles, you may damage your records, so if you want to try this procedure, practice on an old, crappy version of something you may have several copies of, so if you do damage it, no big deal.

Even the wife is impressed with the results......

[loving_it]

Sorry to intrude  on your version of reality.  Yes  I read your post. Glad your procedure works.

 

[brooklyn]

Hi Wayner, thanks for the tip. I have a couple of albums in my collection that
I would love to try your method on because the regular VPI wet cleaning doesn’t
seem to take care of it.

I do agree the a softest brush would work best, I’ve seen my wife use a vacuum
brush on a wood surface only to leave marks from the brush.

[Wayner]

I've done about 500 LPs so far, 4,500 to go, and no marks from the brush. If you are going to do this, you have to be selective on the brush. Also, my vacuum is powerful enough to lift the record right off the platter, so care must be taken. Probably would be nice if my platter had a threaded clamp, like my VPI HW-19jr. The good news is that I can do both sides of an LP in about 2 minutes, so going thru the collection is pretty fast. I'm doing them by favorites right now.

Obviously, you can't vacuum out groove damage, so some of my older and used records are not glitch free, but they are better then before.

[neobop]

I think you might have hit upon something Wayner.  RCM type cleaning isn't perfect and sometimes there seems to be something stuck in-groove that doesn't get floated out with the fluid.  Wet brushing helps, but obviously isn't enough of a scrub to get everything.   A Shop Vac is much stronger than a regular vacuum and I think that might be the reason for your success with this. 

I kind of doubt if the Zerostat does much.  Those stuck particles probably aren't there because of static attraction.  Some dirt might be there that dried-on with the soft vinyl when pressed. 
Good one,
neo

[David C]

not a vinyl guy , but following the forum for awhile 99% of the time Wayner is correct, so listen up Grasshopper

[Wayner]

I think you might have hit upon something Wayner.  RCM type cleaning isn't perfect and sometimes there seems to be something stuck in-groove that doesn't get floated out with the fluid.  Wet brushing helps, but obviously isn't enough of a scrub to get everything.   A Shop Vac is much stronger than a regular vacuum and I think that might be the reason for your success with this. 

I kind of doubt if the Zerostat does much.  Those stuck particles probably aren't there because of static attraction.  Some dirt might be there that dried-on with the soft vinyl when pressed. 
Good one,
neo

I think the Zerostat gets a bad rap because people do not know how to use it properly, or use it way too much and end up actually charging the record up. At any rate, I will try your suggestion on my next batch to see if the omission has any effect. I did want to use it because I had concerns about static build-up doing a dry vacuum.

[Wayner]

not a vinyl guy , but following the forum for awhile 99% of the time Wayner is correct, so listen up Grasshopper

David, that was very kind. I appreciate it. I don't have any money to make with this, it's more like an experiment and it does go against the grain of the norm. But if it works, what the hell.

I tried the Scrubbing Bubbles idea from someone else, so I try to be open minded. We all benefit from successful experiments......

[Quiet Earth]

Hi Wayner,

Thanks for sharing your experiment. It never occurred to me to try what you tried here. It certainly makes sense to me that a more powerful vacuum could pick up more junk than a lesser powered one. I think the Zero Stat might be a good idea to try after you vacuum, since the dry vacuuming usually creates a little static on the record. That seems to be the case at my house anyway.

If you get a chance, can you post a close up picture of your vacuum attachment that comes in contact with the record? Or maybe just share the model/part number of the attachment? My upholstery attachment only has one row of bristles on one side of the vacuum slot opening. I don't know if that is enough brush material to prevent scratching up the record.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your discovery!
 

[MaxCast]

Wayner, have any of these records been vacuumed before?
Are there some records that did not see an improvement?

[Wayner]

Here is what the brush looks like:


It's from an old Hoover vac that I've had for years. New brushes just don't seem to be designed correctly. This is a brush you could use on your fabric covered couches/chairs.

So far I've listened to 4 LPs. Every LP has benefited from the cleaning. The space between the songs is very, very quiet.

[Wayner]

I found this one on Amazon, but I just don't know.....

http://www.amazon.com/Kenmore-Canister-Vacuum-Dusting-Brush/dp/B003LA2U7M/ref=sr_sp-atf_image_1_6?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1407155315&sr=1-6&keywords=vacuum+cleaner+brush

I should clear up one thing too. I guess my vacuum is not officially a shop vac, but rather a canister vac. I use it like a shop vac in my indoor shop and the utility room. It's a Bissel bagless.

Sorry if I have confused some on this point. Actually a true to life shop vac (like my Ridgid) would be even more powerful, my Ridgid can pick up red landscape rocks.......

[Quiet Earth]

No problem. We have a Beam canister vacuum at our house. It's a whole house vacuum system with quite a bit of oomph to it. If I can get an attachment  for it (like the one that you linked) then I will probably give it a try on some records that are still noisy after a nitty gritty cleaning . Brilliant idea!

Stay cool. 

[Wayner]

I'd sure like to give you guys model numbers and all that, but this stuff is kind of old and vacuum models get changed very often. There is no model number on the brush. I do notice that the supplied brushes, for the most part, are not very good. That is why I have kept the old Hoover one. If I find a source, I'll let you all know.....

[Doublej]

How about this brush?

http://www.vacuum-direct.com/sebo-dusting-brush-x-g-felix-370-k-series.aspx?gclid=CNSl1Ori-b8CFSpo7AodSHYAAQ