[randytsuch]

Stumbled across this the other day, thought it was interesting
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/head-head-jrmc19-foobar-sacd-and-hq-player-doing-cd-standard-lpcm-sampled-16-bits-and-44-100-times-second-aimed-reproducing-sound-20-20-000hz-direct-stream-digital-and-native-direct-stream-digital-20687/

Randy

[ted_b]

Note:  I am a huge contributor and paid reviewer on the CA site...but let's create our own discussions over here if possible. 

Yes, the exaSound DAC that is being used in the initial "scientific" experiments is very good at DSD (I reviewed it and own the e28 so I know a thing or two about George's DACs), esp DSD256 (where the noise shaping is pushed to ultraviolet    ).  BUT.....these results are extremely DAC-dependent.   Some DACs excel at PCM, and the decimation from DSD to PCM, if done right, is outweighed by the DACs excellence in PCM playback.  At the end of the day, you need to use your ears to determine where your DAC excels, then use the best possible, least deliterious conversion to get your music to that place.  Sometimes letting the DAC do the work (upsampling, downsampling, etc) is best, sometimes not.  Often even comparing on-the-fly (VERY cpu dependent but saves redundant storage if you can get away with it) to offline conversion is relevant to your final decisions on how best to present your DAC with music files.

[randytsuch]

Hey Ted
So hope this is OK, my intent was to point to the CA thread as a basis for starting a thread on the subject here. 
I did a quick look, and didn't see a similar thread here, but maybe I missed it.

So in this thread, maybe people can discuss their experiences with conversion, and upsampling to higher rate DSD.

I listen to DSD and PCM files, but have not tried upsampling either one, or converting from PCM to DSD.
When I tried a while ago, I couldn't even get foobar to work with DSD, but I'm going to give that another try.
My DAC uses the Amanero USB board, although a few days ago I replaced the PC and Amanero with a Raspberry Pi and have been amazed how good it sounds.  But it doesn't do DSD, at least not with the software I have installed.

Randy

[ted_b]

Randy, no, that is exactly what I meant...you did good.  I simply meant to start a discussion here so we didn't all just go to CA and add to that thread.

For my current go-to DAC, the Chord Hugo, I do no up or downsampling, nor do I do any format conversions (DSD/PCM).  I leave everything be.  I have experimented a little, but found no upsdie, and considerable downside (either redundant files if converting offline, or possible slight veiling if upsampling too much).  When my Meitner MA-1 was my go-to I also found no real adavantages as it upsampled internally (to DSD128) and yet didn;t accept DSD128 files, so it was going to do some ehavy lifting regardless of what I did anyway.  It's those kinds of considerations one needs to be aware of when experimenting with this. 

The good news is that both DSD-to-PCM and PCM-to-DSD conversion routines are getting better and less harmful.  Companies like Signalyst (and their HQPlayer) and BitPerfect (and their DSD Master conversion product) have put a lot of thought into making sure these conversions aren't just resulting in the worst of both worlds (i.e brickwalls AND noise shaping).

[cab]

Are you using 3 hugo's for multichannel? Not sure if that is even possible....

[ted_b]

Are you using 3 hugo's for multichannel? Not sure if that is even possible....

LOL.  Actually Rob (Watts, designer of Hugo) says it can...but no I don't own 3 Hugos.  My go-to multichannel setup is the exaSound E28 I mnetioned a few posts above.  I also still have the stacked Myteks (3 Stereo192's) but the exaSound is simpler as it is a one-box setup.

[randytsuch]

So last night I got Foobar working with DSD64 and 128 on my Dell laptop running Windows 7.

I use an Amanero USB board, and had to update the Asio drivers for it, then it worked.

However, 256 and 512 didn't work, need to try to figure that out, I know people do it.

Randy

[randytsuch]

So I needed to update the Amanero firmware, which is pretty simple to do, especially if you've done it before.

After the upgrade DSD256 works fine.  DSD512 works, but sounds statically, so I didn't use it.

I listened to some Alison Krauss at 64 and 256, and I decided 256 sounds better to me.  It's not a huge thing, but I think I can hear a difference, and for the better.

I was about to go back to using a rPi connected I2S to my dac.  I'm thinking about converting some DSD to Flac, and comparing flac into the rPi to DSD256 into the Amanero.

I am using this dac
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/index.html

For the output stage, I have lundahl transformers.

Randy

[jtwrace]

Randy,


Isn't that DAC like $1250? 

[randytsuch]

Randy,


Isn't that DAC like $1250?

If you buy it as a completed DAC.

I bought the board only, was around $500 with shipping.
I already had the Amanero module, but that would be $60.
I reused an existing chassis, but paid around $100 to have a new front panel made for it.
I had the power transformers already.
I bought some slightly used LL1684's for $220 from K&K.

So I still have $900 into it, but somehow it's not as bad to me doing it piecemeal like this instead of writing one check for $900.  But this required some diy skills, but not much really.

Randy

[jtwrace]

If you buy it as a completed DAC.

I bought the board only, was around $500 with shipping.
I already had the Amanero module, but that would be $60.
I reused an existing chassis, but paid around $100 to have a new front panel made for it.
I had the power transformers already.
I bought some slightly used LL1684's for $220 from K&K.

So I still have $900 into it, but somehow it's not as bad to me doing it piecemeal like this instead of writing one check for $900.  But this required some diy skills, but not much really.

Randy

Nice.  Have you ever tried it against something sold commercially?  Thoughts?

[randytsuch]

Nice.  Have you ever tried it against something sold commercially?  Thoughts?

I have an ifiaudio idac, the non DSD version.  The idac is very good for the price and size, but this dac is better.

The only issue I have is I have to run the USB source from battery.  If I plug in my laptop into a charger, it causes noise on the dac output.  Even using an external hard drive with a walwart for power causes noise.  I tried playing with grounding at some point but couldnt fix it. 
But I have the version 1 of this dac, in the 2nd version they added isolation on the i2s lines which might fix this.

Randy

[bmoura]

LOL.  Actually Rob (Watts, designer of Hugo) says it can...but no I don't own 3 Hugos.  My go-to multichannel setup is the exaSound E28 I mnetioned a few posts above.  I also still have the stacked Myteks (3 Stereo192's) but the exaSound is simpler as it is a one-box setup.

Wow.  Rob should document how that can be done.  And maybe do a You Tube demo of it - similar to the one Chebon at Mytek did for their Multichannel DAC stack.  The concept is alive and well.