[Canada Rob]

As some of you know, we have moved to the South Okanagan (just a few miles from the U.S. border).  The entire house has laminate flooring so the acoustics are quite live. 

Back at our other place I was having great success with the AudioEngine D1 DAC, N22 amp and Super 3i speakers on the desktop, but had never heard this combo in a room setting, let alone a large one.  The Super 3i has always performed well on the desktop, in a small room, and in a large room shooting across one end (which is not like playing in a large room shooting down its length). 

I decided to set the aforementioned system up in our living room with my gutted 1950s Phillips record player/radio cabinet to contain my audio gear and computer.  The lowest cost room system I ever remember setting up as a dealer.  A fun experiment. 

The room is 13' wide x 26' long x 8' high with the speakers shooting down its length.  Note in the picture how the speakers are close to the walls behind (6") and somewhat into the corners.  The speakers are 10' apart and 10' from the listeners ears.  In some cases all this could be the recipe for disaster.  Having no Omega sub on hand, I added our old (pre dealer days) Klipsch RPW-10 sub just in case things were a little thin.

It was ready at about midnight and I was tired, but I had to try it out.  The speakers being new sounded good but a tad thin in this big space, and when I am tired I don't enjoy listening.  The next day a customer was to show up at about noon to hear this system, so I started playing it in the morning getting things dialed in.  As it played the speakers started loosening up and by the time the customer showed up the system was filling the room beautifully with incredible imaging.

Most of the listening was done without the sub, and the guy was blown away making comments about the room filling sound and imaging (no hole in the middle even 10' apart).  The detail and the way this system unravels complicated music is amazing.

Next, the customer asked if he could bring his speakers in to hear.  They are one of the top rated (2 way) stand mount speakers today and are getting rave reviews around the globe.  They are also more than twice the price of the 3i.  We put them on the stands where the Omegas were.  I was not ready for what I heard, and I don't think the customer was either.  Half way through the first song we played on them, he told me to turn them off and put the Omegas back in.  It wasn't even a contest, the Super 3i being the clear winner.

The synergy between the D1/N22 and Super 3i is wonderful, and in all fairness to the other speaker maybe the synergy wasn't there with it and my 22w/ch amp.  60+ watts high current would be a nice match.  The other speaker would also have benefitted being out in the room more (where people can trip over them).  I still don't think those changes would have closed the gap to the point they would be equals.  The Super 3i gave them a real mauling.  Live vs HiFi was how the Omegas sounded compared to the speakers my customer brought.

Looking at my picture one can see how the Super 3i is out of the way of traffic making them (and almost all Omegas) a great lifestyle product.

Please note, the right corner in the room is a true right angle corner.  Lens distortion is causing it not to look that way.

[beowulf]

So err ... now that a few months have passed can you share what the other speaker was?

[Canada Rob]

So err ... now that a few months have passed can you share what the other speaker was?

PM me.

[2-bit Joe]

Are you still in this room, and have you needed to add any treatment to it?

I sit in front of a window like the one in your picture, with just blinds and no curtains.  Only my window is 12 feet wide.  So I'm seriously considering if I should add some sort of heavy curtains over the window to damp echoes.

[Ultralight]

My guess is that the speakers were the KEF LS50.  Only one speaker I know of fits that description given the cost and rave around the globe.  However, to be fair, if it was the LS50, that speaker can sound REALLY crummy when driven with inadequate power/current capability amps and not brought out to the room to breath. It should, however, have lower bass extension than the 3i.  Just one person's guess....a bit of fun.

UL

[Canada Rob]

Are you still in this room, and have you needed to add any treatment to it?

I sit in front of a window like the one in your picture, with just blinds and no curtains.  Only my window is 12 feet wide.  So I'm seriously considering if I should add some sort of heavy curtains over the window to damp echoes.

This setup was before I had my listening room ready. I put the system down in my listening room and then it sold not long after that.  I hadn't treated the room in the picture, but strange to say it worked really well - sort of concert hall rather than intimate listening.  The green area rug went down into my listening room and I haven't replaced it upstairs, but if I do, I may set something up there again.

[JLM]

My guess is that the speakers were the KEF LS50.  Only one speaker I know of fits that description given the cost and rave around the globe.  However, to be fair, if it was the LS50, that speaker can sound REALLY crummy when driven with inadequate power/current capability amps and not brought out to the room to breath. It should, however, have lower bass extension than the 3i.  Just one person's guess....a bit of fun.

UL

Finally heard the LS50 at the Axpona KEF room (end of the day) and was very let down after all the media attention (maybe they're equipment matching/setup fussy).  The tiny $600 Napa system (tube pre/solid state power integrated with small 2-ways) we heard next was much more natural/musical in another large room (obviously not best of show, but extremely impressive and the highlight of the day).

[FireGuy]

Finally heard the LS50 at the Axpona KEF room (end of the day) and was very let down after all the media attention (maybe they're equipment matching/setup fussy).  The tiny $600 Napa system (tube pre/solid state power integrated with small 2-ways) we heard next was much more natural/musical in another large room (obviously not best of show, but extremely impressive and the highlight of the day).

I rather enjoy reading about the discovery of high-synergy, low-cost systems that can sometimes shock and awe listeners.  A reviewer once noted it's much easier to scrutinize super high end gear but more challenging to review systems/pieces that are moderate to low in cost.  The overall design challenges are way more difficult and to then produce results that clip the heals of more expensive gear can be serendipitous.  Omega is one of those companies IMO.

[RDavidson]

I lived with the KEF LS50's for over a year, and they are very good speakers, BUT there are always caveats. I wish reviewers made more effort to explain their listening environment, seating position, and nominal SPLs.

What I found:

1. They sound thin at low volumes (not uncommon of many/most speakers). This is problematic for me as I tend to listen at "comfortable" levels the majority of the time, much like Srajan Ebaen of 6 moons ; In the 70db-85db range. Of course, peaks are louder.

2. They need to be fed some power / volume to balance out and open up (again, not uncommon of many speakers, particularly multi-ways of average to lowish sensitivity). Notably, Dynaudios I've owned suffered this to a very similar degree.

3. Because of the above, they need room to breathe, unless you enjoy loud listening. This somewhat contradicts the idea of what small speakers are made for, and ultimately I couldn't live with their space / volume requirements to perform their best.

4. I wish the LS50s had grills. I may have kept them for A/V purposes in the family room otherwise, but couldn't with their exposed drivers. They're an accident waiting to happen.

I've said this elsewhere ; I fully understand the universal praise of the LS50's and can certainly see them working beautifully for a lot of people. My comments above are not knocks against them, they're merely observations that I feel are missing or are quickly glossed over from virtually all reviews.

With that said, I have found Omegas (3xrs in my experience) to not suffer the lack of openness, musicality, and overall enjoyment (per my requirements / preferences). Does this make Omegas perfect? Of course not. It just means they're ideal for me, and obviously many others here.

[Wind Chaser]

I lived with the KEF LS50's for over a year, and they are very good speakers, BUT there are always caveats. I wish reviewers made more effort to explain their listening environment, seating position, and nominal SPLs.

What I found:

1. They sound thin at low volumes (not uncommon of many/most speakers).

The lower the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound thin at low volumes. The higher the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound fleshed out at low volumes. However the opposite is also true. Low efficiency speakers sound more alive and fleshed out than  high efficiency speakers at higher sound pressure levels.

I'm certain that if you still had the Kef LS50, you find them superior to the Omegas at higher sound pressure levels.

[Flinx99]

I lived with the KEF LS50's for over a year, and they are very good speakers, BUT there are always caveats. I wish reviewers made more effort to explain their listening environment, seating position, and nominal SPLs.

What I found:

1. They sound thin at low volumes (not uncommon of many/most speakers). This is problematic for me as I tend to listen at "comfortable" levels the majority of the

This is exactly why I went with the Super 3i---I don't have to keep turning up the volume to enjoy the detail.  Actually, I find my self turning the volume down now.  These are turning out to be great desktop/nearfield speakers and I'm only on Day 3.

[RDavidson]

The lower the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound thin at low volumes. The higher the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound fleshed out at low volumes. However the opposite is also true. Low efficiency speakers sound more alive and fleshed out than  high efficiency speakers at higher sound pressure levels.

I'm certain that if you still had the Kef LS50, you find them superior to the Omegas at higher sound pressure levels.

That's a little presumptive to say, but as you have added to my point : It's really horses for courses. For my course, Omegas are the right horse. Note I owned the Omega 3xrs and LS50's simultaneously and hooked up in the same system simultaneously. In my system and per my preferences, my observations hold true. Note, I made no absolute statements in my observations about the KEFs, which is why I didn't state I had Omegas and KEFs simultaneously until now. It was unnecessary. They needed no qualification. They are my personal observations and I went on to say that I can understand why they are well reviewed and may work beautifully for others.

[Ultralight]

I've heard this before and yet also heard speaker designers disagree with this assessment.

I'm not challenging your assertions but simply want to understand:

1. Why is this, if it is so?
2. What is the mechanical basis for this?


Thanks!
UL

The lower the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound thin at low volumes. The higher the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound fleshed out at low volumes. However the opposite is also true. Low efficiency speakers sound more alive and fleshed out than  high efficiency speakers at higher sound pressure levels.

I'm certain that if you still had the Kef LS50, you find them superior to the Omegas at higher sound pressure levels.

[2-bit Joe]

This setup was before I had my listening room ready. I put the system down in my listening room and then it sold not long after that.  I hadn't treated the room in the picture, but strange to say it worked really well - sort of concert hall rather than intimate listening.  The green area rug went down into my listening room and I haven't replaced it upstairs, but if I do, I may set something up there again.

Have you posted a picture of your listening room?  I'm interested to know how to set one up properly.

[Canada Rob]

Have you posted a picture of your listening room?  I'm interested to know how to set one up properly.

It's pictured on this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134698.0
I prefer the long wall over the short wall.  The long wall picture has the Decware/Alnico system pictured.

[Wind Chaser]

I've heard this before and yet also heard speaker designers disagree with this assessment.

I'm not challenging your assertions but simply want to understand:

1. Why is this, if it is so?
2. What is the mechanical basis for this?

I don't know why this is so, but it is an observation I have made on numerous occasions, particularly with dynamic / cone speakers and Magnaplanners. The only exception to the rule I have noted is with electrostats, specifically the Acoustat Model 2, 2+2 and Model 3 along with Quad ESL 57 and ESL 63, which are not very efficient and do not play very loud, but nonetheless sound exceptional.

[roscoe65]

The lower the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound thin at low volumes. The higher the efficiency, the more likely a speaker will sound fleshed out at low volumes. However the opposite is also true. Low efficiency speakers sound more alive and fleshed out than  high efficiency speakers at higher sound pressure levels.

I'm certain that if you still had the Kef LS50, you find them superior to the Omegas at higher sound pressure levels.

I would strongly disagree with that position.  There is no way you can reasonably state that high-efficiency speaker sounds less "alive and fleshed out at higher sound pressure levels".  It is a virtual impossibility for conventional low-efficiency hifi speakers to match the scale, dynamics, and impact of a true high efficiency reproducer.  I don't think you've had the opportunity to experience a set of well-tuned big rigs like A7 VOT, Big JBL's, or modded Cornwalls.

The only people who would make such a statement are those who have never experienced a reproducer intended to match actual live sound pressure levels.  While Omega excels within its mission and stated limitations, using it as an example of the high pressure limitations of HE speakers is misguided.  They suffer the limitations of physics and make no excuses for it.

[Louis O]

I agree wholeheartedly with roscoe65. I also have heard some of the big rigs that roscoe65 stated (Altecs and JBL) and no low- efficiency HiFi speaker can come close. I also heard midsized EV's that were amazing turned way up.

I design my speakers as High Efficiency single drivers and single driver based. They are made primarily for domestic settings and not quite as large, but more attuned to the music and very fast compared to low efficiency HIFi speakers. With my Speed12's I will be pushing the envelope though.

Many thanks for the post roscoe65,
Louis

[Folsom]

Well, how do headphones work then? I'm pretty sure good speakers of any size are fine at low volume.

[Canada Rob]

Well, how do headphones work then? I'm pretty sure good speakers of any size are fine at low volume.

I've found some lower efficiency speakers, though sounding fine at medium to high volumes, lose dynamics at low volumes.  Any Omega I've heard has sounded very good at low volumes with all the dynamics left intact.  The (truly) high efficiency design and flyweight drivers with nothing whatsoever in the signal path between amp and driver are definitely the main contributing factors to their great low level dynamics.  The amplifier used can also effect low level dynamics.