[TimS]

I have some Hi-Rez music files but most are 16/44.1 FLAC; Is there any advantage in buying an ES9018 based DAC?  I've read that:

"The Sabre ES9018 is not solely a DAC. Its an ASIC with patented upsampling and jitter reduction algorithms, embedded S/PDIF receiver and so on... It's also a modular 8 channels DAC.
 
The technically advanced ES9018 is a great departure from the simplistic PCM1704 r2r mono DAC. One could say, they are diametrically opposite in the DACs realm, in a technical standpoint."

Not that I understand much of the above but will a 9018 DAC with 16/44.1 files necessarily give me better SQ?

Thanks

[JohnR]

The proof of the pudding is, as they say (*), in the eating. It doesn't matter what is in the DAC if it doesn't sound good to you. Conversely, you can't really tell from statements such as those that you posted whether it will sound good to you. The short answer is, based on resolution alone, no. But there are far too many other variables to speculate upon. So, questions related to specific equipment that you have and/or are thinking to purchase will more likely elicit meaningful (to you) responses.


(*). Actually, usually "they" say that the proof is in the pudding, which is a bizarre misquote of the saying. The point is the same though.

[mgalusha]

Along the same lines as John's comments, the chip can be important but there are many many variables, implementation is key. I've heard ES9018 DAC's that range from annoying to sublime, for my tastes of course. IMO getting the best out of the 9018 chips takes real work, it appears to be finicky about power supplies, clocks and signal routing, so basing your choice on just the chip isn't a good idea. I have a TEAC UD-501 which uses Burr-Brown DAC's, it's quite nice. I did have a Mytek which uses the 9018, I didn't care for it but I also have an Auralic Vega, which is also based on the 9018 chip, I am very fond of it, different implementation, different results.

Hopefully you can find some local folks who can let you listen to various DAC's and get a feel for them.

[JLM]

Another approach if you're using a computer as a transport is to use software (such as JRiver, Audivana, or PureMusic) to convert PCM (16/44.1 and all hi-res formats) to DSD and then use a dedicated DSD DAC (that is simpler to build, like the $149 Schiit Loki).

[adydula]

The implementation is the most important part, agree with Mike etc....

Layout, design, power etch all can influence the total end result.

Another saying "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts..."

Alex

[dreamtheatervn]

You guys all right however let try between 02 DACs: NOS DAC & Hi-res Dac. Test A/B with same song (Redbook 44.1 & 192 or whatever hi-rez). Of course, those DACs should have same price, and from same transport. After that TimS will find out what DAC he wants.

[jarcher]

Along the same lines as John's comments, the chip can be important but there are many many variables, implementation is key. I've heard ES9018 DAC's that range from annoying to sublime, for my tastes of course. IMO getting the best out of the 9018 chips takes real work, it appears to be finicky about power supplies, clocks and signal routing, so basing your choice on just the chip isn't a good idea. I have a TEAC UD-501 which uses Burr-Brown DAC's, it's quite nice. I did have a Mytek which uses the 9018, I didn't care for it but I also have an Auralic Vega, which is also based on the 9018 chip, I am very fond of it, different implementation, different results.

Hopefully you can find some local folks who can let you listen to various DAC's and get a feel for them.

Couldn't agree more.  "It's got a TOTL ESS" is a lot of marketing baloney if the implementation is not right.  Vega nails it by having the 9018 do only D/A and wrapping it up in a SOTA implementation. 

TEAC 501 even though BB is a total smoothy and albeit different from the Vega, another great product. 

Look beyond the DAC chip, NOS vs Oversampling, Upsampling vs Not debate blather and let your ears and tastes make the decision for you.  There's no substitute for personal experience in your system. 

[JLM]

At a 2009 AES presentation McGill University demonstrated that most trained listeners (studio folks and musicians) couldn't tell the difference (within 5%) between MP3 and Redbook.  At that time they wanted to do a 2nd study comparing Redbook to high resolution formats, but why bother?

My conclusion then is, No.  Stick with a good implementation of Redbook, save money, and don't worry about the technology Merry-Go-Round.

[Guy 13]

At a 2009 AES presentation McGill University demonstrated that most trained listeners (studio folks and musicians) couldn't tell the difference (within 5%) between MP3 and Redbook.  At that time they wanted to do a 2nd study comparing Redbook to high resolution formats, but why bother?

My conclusion then is, No.  Stick with a good implementation of Redbook, save money, and don't worry about the technology Merry-Go-Round.

Hi JLM.
Excuse (Again) my ignorance, but what is Redbook?
I saw that word many, many times here on AC,
but never bother to ask the meaning,
now I cannot sleep anymore over that.
I need to know.

Guy 13

Please forget my question/request above.
I've decided to step out of my lazyness
and went searching on Wikipedia
and found an answer to my (Ignorant) question.
Now I will be able to sleep at night.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio

[mcgsxr]

I find that front ends develop the fastest, and thus change the fastest too.

I have determined that for the present, I will play around with good budget pieces and enjoy what comes every 2-3 years as a 1-2 year old used piece.

I sold off the Bolder modded Logitech front end I used for a long time a couple of years ago, and am currently enjoying the used HRT Music Streamer II I picked up used here.  It does redbook, and various hi rez formats.  I like what I hear, and for the $, it is stupid good.

In time I will replace it with another $200-$300 piece and see what that is like.  I am off the high end merry go round these days, but could see a time in the future that I might chase it again, though always on a very defined budget.

[geowak]

Hi JLM.
Excuse (Again) my ignorance, but what is Redbook?
I saw that word many, many times here on AC,
but never bother to ask the meaning,
now I cannot sleep anymore over that.
I need to know.

Guy 13

Please forget my question/request above.
I've decided to step out of my lazyness
and went searching on Wikipedia
and found an answer to my (Ignorant) question.
Now I will be able to sleep at night.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio

I think redbook is a set of technical standards by industry professionals by which CDs are made. The book that contains the standards has a red cover. Thus the name redbook cd.

[JLM]

I think redbook is a set of technical standards by industry professionals by which CDs are made. The book that contains the standards has a red cover. Thus the name redbook cd.

No, it's all part of a giant communist plot to dumb down westerns into accepting digital versus vinyl, buy all new gear, and now to buy all new gear again to move up to a "better" format.  Don't believe anything you read (or hear).   

[Big Red Machine]

I bought a Chord Qute EX dac for under $2k and am thrilled I did.  The ability to play high rez material is soooo nice.  I will upgrade to a more expensive Chord unit next year.  Worth the money IME to have a unit that seemlessly plays all resolutions.

[Freo-1]

The short answer is: Yes.  There is an audible difference with well done recordings, despite some of the math geeks arguments that human can't detect anything over the existing CD format.

Honestly, the Oppo BDP-105 can be used for this job, and do everything else as well.  To my mind, the best buy in High End audio right now.

[Folsom]

No one I know of has proved that filling in more information displaces noise (unintentional) that could compete in more finite areas, but no one has dis-proven it either... Just a thought, as the high-res stuff DOES sound different but the differences may become more towards negligible as overall system/power quality increases.

[paul79]

The Qute EX is a great option, but for just a tad more, a Vega would be the ticket.

[DaveC113]

I agree with the general sentiment that implementation is key, and it would probably be more helpful if you (TimS) could give us a budget and we can recommend some DACs that sound good, rather than concentrating on what chip is used.

paul79, I think double the price is more than a "tad" but I agree the Vega is a great DAC. 

[Big Red Machine]

I put my trust into Chord's own chip design.  The Vega sounds okay to me but I don't want one.  I'll be looking for a higher level Chord someday that does not use battery power, IYKWIM.

[fmw]

The short answer is: Yes.  There is an audible difference with well done recordings, despite some of the math geeks arguments that human can't detect anything over the existing CD format.

The long answer is more complicated.  The aforementioned math geeks say that audible differences between redbook and higher resolution recordings is in the mastering, not the resolution. 

[navi]

I have some Hi-Rez music files but most are 16/44.1 FLAC; Is there any advantage in buying an ES9018 based DAC?  I've read that:

"The Sabre ES9018 is not solely a DAC. Its an ASIC with patented upsampling and jitter reduction algorithms, embedded S/PDIF receiver and so on... It's also a modular 8 channels DAC.
 
The technically advanced ES9018 is a great departure from the simplistic PCM1704 r2r mono DAC. One could say, they are diametrically opposite in the DACs realm, in a technical standpoint."

Not that I understand much of the above but will a 9018 DAC with 16/44.1 files necessarily give me better SQ?

Thanks

No and No.

Ivan.
(IFI Micro iDSD user)