[markrodgers22]

Hi Everyone,

I have been using only a pair of Emerald XLs for about five years now and would like to upgrade something.  I do not know if a subwoofer would fill in whatever it is I feel I am missing, or if I need tower speakers.

My normal listening habits are mainly piano muisic, film scores, and typical Pandora channels like Morrisey, The Beatles, Eddie Vedder, etc . . .

I have two small kids that have knocked my current speakers over a couple times causing damage to the corners of my piano finish.  I do not want to buy anything expensive for them to destroy while chasing bouncy balls.

I am very happy with the Emeralds, I just cannot put my finger on what they lack.  I do not know much about audio.  A subwoofer would not make a big difference with piano music right?  Would a center speaker compliment the Emeralds?  I would rather add something than replace my Emeralds with Saphires do to not thinking the difference will be enough. 

Thank you for your time

[roymail]

What are you using to drive them?  Probably a bit more current wouldn't hurt.  Some years ago I had ACI speakers built from a kit.  I started with a receiver but moved up to a power amp, and it made all the difference.

[CSI]

As an owner of the larger ACI Sapphires I agree with the above. These speakers love good amplification. I've used mine with both tube amps and solid state with excellent results - the woofers need current and control. Prima Luna and Decware for tubes, Odyssey for SS but also good results with the cheaper Virtue integrateds. And the subwoofer will help a lot. I'm using the ACI sub but there are other good ones out there. Just avoid the Big Box one note boomers. A cheap sub can be worse than no sub at all.

[markrodgers22]

Thank you for the replies, sorry for my delayed response. 

I am using a Yamaha RX-V1900 to power them.  My wife and kids use them to listen to a variety of music, I mainly listen to film scores.  I sometimes like to put on some Morrissey or Iggy Pop, but mainly instrumental music.  We play a lot of solo piano, solo violin/cello, and classical guitar. 

Even with my little knowledge of sound systems, I know the bass is what I am lacking the most.

The question is if I can keep these speakers that I have been happy with and fill in the gap with a sub/center speaker, or if I should replace them with something larger.  I have been eyeing some Song Birds, but do not know if they will make that big a different compared to what I have now.  The Song Towers are probably too large for my room.

My two main constraints are my wife will not let me put anything too dominant in there and I have two kids under five years old.

So what do you think:

1. Sub - it looks like ACIs are hard to get now they shut down.  I would like to get a Force XL and piano black if this is the recommended option.  If I cannot get a good price for one, are there any other subs you would recommend with these speakers?
2. AMP - will these speakers really sound that much better with an amp?  If so, what would you recommend?
3. Center speaker - I doubt this will be the recommendation.
4. Is there something I do not know about that will solve this without being too large (wife constraint) or too expensive (scared kids will destroy)?

Over the last few years I have on and off read through these forums for recommendations (how I ended up with these speakers in the first place), but this being a site full of enthusiasts it takes any confidence I have of making the right decision myself.  From what I have read I have to choose the perfect component to compliment my specific speakers.  Not having a well trained ear and being located in Germany, testing a lot of speakers does not really work for me.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge,
Mark

[mrhyfy]

I suspect the rear wall is causing a nodal point where you sit resulting in  the lowest octaves in music to cancel out.
A sub or bigger amp may not solve your dilemma! 

[markrodgers22]

Well, to add to the complication of this, we normally listen to the music from that room throughout the apartment.  That is why the Emeralds are so great.  No matter where you are in the apartment they sound clear and pleasant.

[Mudslide]

I have some older ACI's and love them...but have diminished their spot to rear surrounds. 

What you have are good but very small speakers that cannot produce decent bass nor push a lot of air/volume.  I'm certain a larger speaker would help you immensely.

For a value suggestion, you should take a look at Philharmonic Audio speakers.  http://philharmonicaudio.com/index.html
The Philharmonitor may be right up your alley.  It adds a full octave to the bass specs on your Emeralds.  It was designed by a renowned speaker designer who also happens to be a concert violinist.  His musical taste is sympatico with yours and I believe you would enjoy the voicing and accuracy he builds into his speakers.  (See the measurements!!)  If you still feel 'slam' is missing from your speakers, then a small sub would be in order.  It would help tame any room modes you have.

If price is not an problem, you may also enjoy the Slim Jr.'s size and output.  They may fit your room and (wife's) tastes nicely.

BTW, that's a pretty spartan room.  A few tapestries and curtains, or even tasteful absorbers, would likely improve the audio image and timbre.  It looks like you might be getting nodes and reflections all over the place.

Lastly, your Yamaha is more than adequate to drive any ACI monitor speaker.

[dougme57]

I have an Emerald LE I used for a center and would entertain an offer. It is black an I would say a 7. It has been sitting idle for 3 years. I still used my Sapphire 111 LE's.

[markrodgers22]

@dougme57 - thank you for the offer, but I do not think that will be enough to make me happy.

@Mudslide - Thank you for the recommendations, I had not even considered Slims Towers until now.  I tend to only get on here every few months.  I was surprised when I found out Mike from ACI retired.

I am pretty sure this time around I am going to pull the trigger on something although I am buying blind.

I am looking at:

*The Slims Tower - I assume if I pay the $500 more I can get them looking like SongTowers.  I see these are deeper, do they also need to be further from the wall?

*Ascend Sierra Tower - I like how these look, just have read mixed things about them.  Clarity is very important to me.  As mentioned, I like being able to hear music throughout the apartment without distortion. 

*SongTower - I like how these look and have thought about getting them every few months for the last couple years.

*Song Tower SC - These are a different price than the rest, but I would be willing to role the dice due to the trust I have gotten in this brand from the forum and Mike Dzurko's referal.  The only question would be, will I notice the difference enough to justify the price?

Regarding the room being spartan, my wife has expensive taste when it comes to curtains.  So far it has cost me $1000 a room for the bedrooms we have done.  With the number of windows in that living room I do not see us doing it.  Additionally here in Europe they have these shutters built into the wall that go up and down with the touch of a button.  The whole apartment turns into a bat cave at will.

Thanks again,
Mark

[Mudslide]

Bat cave, eh?     Just steer clear of the guano.

Hi Mark.  Good job...you have developed some fine speaker possibilities that you are looking into.  Dave at Ascend makes fine gear.  I have auditioned some of his speakers and rated them highly.  And I don't believe anything anywhere can outperform Jim Salk's offerings.  The only reason I recommended the Slims was for the size of their footprint being perhaps more suited to your stated needs.  Keep in mind, Dennis Murphy designs not only the Philharmonic speakers, but also designs the crossovers and voices the Salks.  My previous comments about musical tastes apply with the Salks, too.  Clarity and accuracy are hallmarks of his designs.

As a side note, because of your taste in musical genres especially, I'd recommend that any speakers you get sport ribbon tweeters.  But that's my personal bias.

And no, the Slims don't have to be placed further from the wall.

Lastly, I have auditioned most of the Salk lineup.  I have not heard the STSC, however, so can't comment on that.  Perhaps an I-search......?

[Mudslide]

PS:  Mike D is a terrific guy, a credit to his craft, and I'm really sorry he chose to leave our hobby.  It's a competitive field, for sure.

[Mudslide]

Mark, what did you decide to do?

[markrodgers22]

I am trying to decide between the Salk SongTower and the SCST.  I may need to wait a little longer until there is more discussion between the two.  I have spent a great amount of time reading the few compares I could find, but have not been able to decide.  Not being able to listen to them before buying makes it more difficult.

Seeing the SongTowers that come up used on this forum has me a bit worried I may be in the same situation in a few years.

[sfox7076]

Invariably people sell their songtowers to move up the Salk chain.  I went from STRT, to HT2s and now to Exoticas. All Salks are great, but audio people often have a disease called upgraditus.  I would have to say my STs were the best speaker I have ever owned and only went up from there.  If WAF is not an issue (huge issue for me) GR Research is another speaker to look at. 

[Mudslide]

I am trying to decide between the Salk SongTower and the SCST.  I may need to wait a little longer until there is more discussion between the two.  I have spent a great amount of time reading the few compares I could find, but have not been able to decide.  Not being able to listen to them before buying makes it more difficult.

Seeing the SongTowers that come up used on this forum has me a bit worried I may be in the same situation in a few years.

Allow me to suggest that you will be VERY pleased with any of the Salk speakers.  As sfox suggests, most, if not all ST resales you see here are due to folks upgrading within the Salk stable.  However, I do have one caveat...buy the best Salk speaker you can afford.  The upgrade sickness takes a little longer to grab onto you that way.   

[Mudslide]

Invariably people sell their songtowers to move up the Salk chain.  I went from STRT, to HT2s and now to Exoticas. All Salks are great, but audio people often have a disease called upgraditus.  I would have to say my STs were the best speaker I have ever owned and only went up from there.  If WAF is not an issue (huge issue for me) GR Research is another speaker to look at.

Exoticas, now?!  Why you.....    

[markrodgers22]

Well, I went ahead and bought the Salk SongTower RTs that were available immediately.  I have had them for a month now and am very happy with them.  I got them in satin black at my wife's request.  I would have gotten something a bit more flashy if it were my decision.  Even in satin black they are beautiful.   

With two young kids I do not have time to sit and do intensive listening, but it is nice to turn these up while making dinner and have the kids dancing around.  It has made a very big difference in all types of music I listen to.  Additionally I now have the ACI Emeralds in my study.  Previously I had used some Sony headphones, but I am loving how the Emeralds sound in this smaller room.

All in all I could not be happier with how things worked out.  Both Jim and Mike have made true value (to borrow the term from Pirsig).

One request I have for anyone buying speakers from Jim Salk is to make sure you use the Quicken Payment system.  It will make sure more of your money gets to him.  It works like a bank transfer, so you might not have the same security you would with Paypal or another system, but he is a trustworthy person with a solid background.