[mresseguie]

Hello, amplifier lovers.

I've got a simple question whose answers will, of course, be very subjective. Nonetheless, I seek your opinions. Here goes:

Today I heard the McIntosh sound for the first time. Of course the components were amazing--MC302 amplifier, C2500 Tube preamp, and Sonus Faber Olympica II speakers. I'd say this listening session was one of those 'A-HA!' moments. I found myself scheming with my buddy (who was also thrilled by the sound!) on how to buy this equipment without my wife's figuring out I had done it. Impossible, of course!

I keep reading posts/opinions about how great AVA FET Valve amps, Odyssey amps, Modwright, Bryston, etc. are, but I've never had an opportunity to plop any two of them down for a side-by-side comparison. My question is how do the top of the line amplifiers in AC's Circles (site sponsors) compare to the McIntosh line of amps/preamps, or each other?

Nice, probably too simple question, but I think you know what I'm asking. Anyone have first-hand experience with comparing these amps?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Michael

[Austin08]

I would like to know too. Thanks for the post Micheal.

[Guy 13]

Hi Michael.
One more AC that would like to know, especially McIntosh vs Bryston,
Bryston, made in my country, Canada that is..

Guy 13

[Freo-1]

Mcintosh gear was once described in an Audio Mag review by Anthony Cordesman as equipment "built for the carriage trade" , as opposed to the high performance trade.  I've owned several pieces of McIntosh gear over the years.  Very well built, lots of protection circuits, and tends to retain resale value.  All very good traits.

Personally, I found the McIntosh sound a little too polite and laid back for my tastes.  The output autoformers are the key to their sound, and I think they provide both strengths and shortfalls.  The autoformers provide a very smooth sound, and as such, mitigate a lot of harshness with SS sound.  Having said that, the Mcintosh gear lacks the midrange presence that often provides that illusion that a live musical event is being presented.  In general, well made tube gear does a much better job at midrange reproduction than solid state. 

Personally, (if one is going to use SS gear), I would recommend auditioning Electrocompaniet over most any other solid state gear, as they seem to provide a unique sound that not only is missing the glare one associates with SS, it provides better (subjective) low level detail without distortion, and outstanding dynamics.  I believe this performance is achieved by proprietary feedback that does away with transient intermodulation distortion. 

As always, YMMV.  Also, would like to add that speakers provide MUCH more difference than amps.

[electricbear]

To my ears McIntosh always sounds good, controlled and musical. However not all music was recorded that way.
Bryston on the other hand, will deliver with an iron fist control, low noise floor and an accurate sound.
I like to hear my music the way the artist intended me to, warts and all. That's why I prefer Bryston over McIntosh.
Do a little research and see how many studios use Bryston vs studios using McIntosh.

 

[mresseguie]

Freo and Bear,

Thank you for offering your thoughts and impressions. I was really curious what people might say, but I guess I hadn't anticipated such a limited response.

One potentially great thing to come out of this was I discovered ATC Audio speakers when I checked Freo's system. Freo, I may pick your brain on the SCM 19 and the SCM 40. They both look like damned nice speakers.  I even chatted with a guy at Lion Mountain in Las Vegas. No one in my area carries them.

Best,

Michael

[FullRangeMan]

This say alot about the McIntosh sound, the solidstate MACs and Cerwin-Vega are preferred by DJs from NYC and to stage PA by some rock bands, as Greteful Dead:
http://www.cepro.com/article/mcintosh_rocks_hall_of_fames_grateful_dead_exhibit/
OBS.: In view of The Dead is dead, this was in the 1990s.

[Freo-1]

Freo and Bear,

Thank you for offering your thoughts and impressions. I was really curious what people might say, but I guess I hadn't anticipated such a limited response.

One potentially great thing to come out of this was I discovered ATC Audio speakers when I checked Freo's system. Freo, I may pick your brain on the SCM 19 and the SCM 40. They both look like damned nice speakers.  I even chatted with a guy at Lion Mountain in Las Vegas. No one in my area carries them.

Best,

Michael

They are both outstanding speakers.  I own two pairs of SCM-19s.   One pair is used with the ATC C1 subwoofer, and the other is used with a SVS SB13Ultra.  I've owned quite a few speakers over the ears, and I have to say the SM-19's are my favorites.   They are about as accurate of a near field monitor as on can find.  The super liner driver is without question one of, if not the BEST mid drivers REGARDLESS of price.  They are that good.  If you prefer accurate over Euphonic, these are your kind of speakers.

 


Here is a good review on the SCM-19:

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-and-av-speakers/atc-scm19-hi-fi-98230/review


. 
ATC's primary market is for studio and professional use.  The only folks who I've come across who didn't love them were other jealous speaker makers. 

[MichiganMike]

I use McIntosh MC501amps and C48 preamp to drive Salk Soundscape 10 speakers.  To my ears this was a big step up from my very good Parasound A21 amp in terms of bass control, residual noise, midrange realism and imaging.  The sound is life like and never strained in my experience.  YMMV.

[Austin08]

I use McIntosh MC501amps and C48 preamp to drive Salk Soundscape 10 speakers.  To my ears this was a big step up from my very good Parasound A21 amp in terms of bass control, residual noise, midrange realism and imaging.  The sound is life like and never strained in my experience.  YMMV.

I would have expected $11,000 amp must sound that good.

[MichiganMike]

I would have expected $11,000 amp must sound that good.

Three years ago, I purchased my McIntosh MC501 amps from an authorized dealer as demo units.  Used MC501 amps sell today for >90% of what I paid.  I am well pleased with the performance as well as the retention of value.

[dB Cooper]

They hold their value because they are built like tanks and they back their product to the hilt. Anybody else here ever take an amp to one of their test clinics back when dinosaurs roamed the earth?

[FullRangeMan]

They hold their value because they are built like tanks and they back their product to the hilt. Anybody else here ever take an amp to one of their test clinics back when dinosaurs roamed the earth?

Only Bob Carver and he make a big splash if one know the history.

[Speedskater]

They hold their value because they are built like tanks and they back their product to the hilt. Anybody else here ever take an amp to one of their test clinics back when dinosaurs roamed the earth?

Yep, I took my Dynakit ST-70 to be tested.  While waiting for the test, I meet a guy who became a good friend.  When over to his house and at that time he had a very nice McIntosh setup. Then he took me to another room and it also had a very nice McIntosh setup, his joke was don't you need two of everything for stereo?  The truth was, he rented that wing of the house to a person that he converted to hi-fi.

[milford3]

I remember many ions ago listening to McIntosh sound.  Their design has not changed that much in the 30 plus years.  I also remember listening to amps from a short lived company called Phase Linear. 

http://www.phaselinearhistory.stereomanuals.com/amplifiers.htm

[FullRangeMan]

PhaseLinear was a company from Bob Carver also, not a great sound, it was called PhuzzLinear.

[MichiganMike]

I remember many ions ago listening to McIntosh sound.  Their design has not changed that much in the 30 plus years. 

I am uncertain what the so-called McIntosh sound is at present.  A major debate arose in the last few years among McIntosh owners as to whether the current generation of solid state amps, such as MC601 or MC452 amps, have a "different" or "improved" sound relative to the older solid state amp designs, such as the MC501 amp.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=370814

Some claim the introduction of Thermal Trak transistors in the newer McIntosh amp designs has changed how these amps sound.  Others, believe McIntosh has intentionally designed recent solid state circuits to modify the traditional sound.  Still others believe the McIntosh line of amps retain a "house" sound.  McIntosh continues to be virtually unique in its use of output autoformers in solid state amps, which some feel are essential to the McIntosh sound.  Many McIntosh owners prefer the McIntosh tube amp designs over McIntosh or other solid state amps.   

The demographics for McIntosh owners are also evolving and may motivate future changes in the McIntosh product line and sound.  An increasing number of units are being sold in China and other overseas countries where McIntosh equipment has become a status symbol.  Some believe this has contributed to recent price increases by McIntosh.  In the U.S., many affluent buyers are less interested in investing in hi-end audio than in the past.  Many prospective U.S. buyers have difficulty even finding a dealer nearby to audition McIntosh audio equipment.

In 2012, McIntosh Labs was sold by D&M holdings (which owns Denon and Marantz lines) to an Italian holding company, Fine Sounds SpA (the owner/distributor of Sonus Faber, Audio Research and Wadia).  Who knows how the change in ownership may impact the future development and sound of McIntosh products?
   
http://www.strata-gee.com/2012/10/08/dm-sells-mcintosh-labs-to-italian-high-end-marketer-backed-by-private-equity/

[mresseguie]

I have a further question regarding McIntosh amps:

I may be able to buy a vintage, single owner McIntosh MC2100 amp. The asking price is under $800. This thing is close to 50 years old. It was tuned up recently, so it is in working condition. Is this an insane opportunity to buy a classic McIntosh amp, or an insane idea that is better forgotten?

Michael

[FullRangeMan]

$200 would be OK.

[mresseguie]

$200? Geez. I thought perhaps there would be some sort of vintage collectors' value to it.