Anyone using sealed dual subs to enhance your stereo sound?

geowak · « **on:** 2 Jul 2014, 11:20 pm »

Got a chance to get some musical servo sealed subs. So I wondered, from the AC crowd, "are any of you using dual sealed subs to get that lower tight bass....successfully?"

Bob2 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jul 2014, 11:35 pm »

Yes, I am. One for left and one for right. Adds significantly in my setup.
I keep them dialed back a bit but would never change this out!
One of the best additions In my opinion!

geowak · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Jul 2014, 11:47 pm »

Quote from: Bob2 on 2 Jul 2014, 11:35 pm

Yes, I am. One for left and one for right. Adds significantly in my setup.
I keep them dialed back a bit but would never change this out!
One of the best additions In my opinion!

Would you mind if I ask you which speakers you are using, and which subs?

Gzerro · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Jul 2014, 11:50 pm »

I use 2 15" Salk/Rythmik sealed servo subs for both Stereo and HT. One of the best improvements I have ever made. The 2nd sub was a bigger improvement than the 1st.

It took some time to get best placement for smooth integration and reasonably flat response. Expect to put some effort into setup for "success".

Good luck if you go for it!

Tom

jschwenker · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Jul 2014, 02:55 am »

I am using 2 Thiel SS1 subs with Thiel 3.7 mains. The subs sit about 2 feet behind the mains on each side. I use a Behringer DCX2496 for crossover control. I am using a second order crossover slope (12 dB/oct at 80Hz) for a little sharper transition than the first order slopes Thiels use internally. In the crossover I delay the mains by the amount that the second order slope delays the subs, plus the delay for the greater subs distance. From there I fine tuned the delay with a SPL meter to maximize the in-phase response at 80Hz.

Well time aligned "subbery" is a delight when matched up with well recorded drums! Can't say I hear the subs in stereo necessarily. For me it was more of an issue of two subs being about the right power level for a good match as well as making a neat looking symmetrical layout - and, I think, having the subs close to the mains de-complicates the time alignment maybe a little more so than a single sub off in another place.

Cheers, John

rockadanny · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Jul 2014, 04:00 am »

Two ACI Titan XL subs in use here.

12" powered driver in each sealed cab. Chez groovy, man.

jk@home · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Jul 2014, 04:14 pm »

Yeap. Kef LS50s as mains, with the ports plugged, running full range. Next to each of them a sealed diy sub with a 12" non-servo Rythmik driver in a 2 CF boxes, for mid bass. Then 2 - 15" AE drivers in each of two IB manifolds in the ceiling for the ULFs. Gives the system the bass punch that the KEFs alone can't do.

Hear Clifford Brown · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jul 2014, 04:59 pm »

Magnepan 1.7's with dual Vandersteen 2Wq subs. These are not sealed. Compared to other subs I've tried, these blend much better and totally disappear. The bass sound is between the main speakers and at the same height like all the other frequencies. These have only two adjustments, one is simply to set a dial to the value of your main speakers efficiency (like 86 dB for the Maggies), and the other is an adjustable Q control. I placed the subs in the corners behind the mains, spent a half hour adjusting the Q and listening, and was done. For me in my room they are perfect, may not be the cat's meow for everyone.

The last previous subs I tried were JL Audio Fathom f113's which I could not get to blend despite moving them to various locations and spending hours adjusting their controls, even with their Room Optimization Control.

I think the 2Wq's work so well because of their unique connection method. From the Vandy literature:

Conventional powered subwoofers receive their input signal directly from their crossover
before the main amplifier. The sonic signature of the main amplifier that is an important
part of the sound you hear from the full-range speakers is missing from the subwoofer.
This causes blending and integration problems as the sonic characteristics of the system
are different above and below the subwoofer crossover point. This deterioration of system
coherence is why conventional subwoofers have never been totally accepted as part of
ultra high-performance audio systems.

The 2Wq uses a unique, innovative connection method that reduces the current demands on the main amplifier, but leaves the main amplifier in the signal path to the subwoofer. The system realizes the benefits of bi-amplification with absolute sonic continuity as the main amplifier’s characteristics that are evident through the full-range speakers are maintained to the deepest bass, but with the power and control of the 2Wq ’s internal 300 watt amplifier.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jul 2014, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: geowak on 2 Jul 2014, 11:20 pm

Got a chance to get some musical servo sealed subs. So I wondered, from the AC crowd, "are any of you using dual sealed subs to get that lower tight bass....successfully?"

Geo, I'm using a single SVS SB13 Ultra sealed sub successfully with ATC SCM-19 speakers. Eventually, will get a second sub, but for now, one is working great with the ATC speakers. The bass from the SVS is tight, deep and musical. No boom whatsoever. One of the very few subs that the quality of the sub mates well with the extremely high quality ATC speakers.

john1970 · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jul 2014, 05:21 pm »

I use two JL Audio subs for exactly this purpose and for me they work perfectly providing extra bass from 20-35 Hz. I hardly notice their presence and use a Bryston 10B sub crossover to blend them in with my main speakers.

Best,
John

glynnw · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Jul 2014, 06:03 pm »

Using 2 18" BagEnd self-powered subs applying DSP through a DSpeaker Core 2 Duo unit. Almost impreceptible unless source calls for it. Add a lot of ambience, but not as much slam as I want.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Jul 2014, 06:14 am »

Quote from: glynnw on 4 Jul 2014, 06:03 pm

Using 2 18" BagEnd self-powered subs applying DSP through a DSpeaker Core 2 Duo unit. Almost impreceptible unless source calls for it. Add a lot of ambience, but not as much slam as I want.

Not enough slam, eh? You wouldn't be living in Canada and wanting to sell them, would you?

bdp24 · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Jul 2014, 07:16 am »

Quote from: Hear Clifford Brown on 4 Jul 2014, 04:59 pm

Magnepan 1.7's with dual Vandersteen 2Wq subs. These are not sealed. Compared to other subs I've tried, these blend much better and totally disappear. The bass sound is between the main speakers and at the same height like all the other frequencies. These have only two adjustments, one is simply to set a dial to the value of your main speakers efficiency (like 86 dB for the Maggies), and the other is an adjustable Q control. I placed the subs in the corners behind the mains, spent a half hour adjusting the Q and listening, and was done. For me in my room they are perfect, may not be the cat's meow for everyone.

The last previous subs I tried were JL Audio Fathom f113's which I could not get to blend despite moving them to various locations and spending hours adjusting their controls, even with their Room Optimization Control.

I think the 2Wq's work so well because of their unique connection method. From the Vandy literature:

Conventional powered subwoofers receive their input signal directly from their crossover
before the main amplifier. The sonic signature of the main amplifier that is an important
part of the sound you hear from the full-range speakers is missing from the subwoofer.
This causes blending and integration problems as the sonic characteristics of the system
are different above and below the subwoofer crossover point. This deterioration of system
coherence is why conventional subwoofers have never been totally accepted as part of
ultra high-performance audio systems.

The 2Wq uses a unique, innovative connection method that reduces the current demands on the main amplifier, but leaves the main amplifier in the signal path to the subwoofer. The system realizes the benefits of bi-amplification with absolute sonic continuity as the main amplifier’s characteristics that are evident through the full-range speakers are maintained to the deepest bass, but with the power and control of the 2Wq ’s internal 300 watt amplifier.

For what it's worth: The Rythmik Servo Subwoofer plate amp also will take it's signal from the main power amp's speaker terminals, though Peter Ding makes no claim that by doing so his sub is unique or innovative; at least, not for that reason. That capability is, in fact, quite common. Before the Rythmik, the Vandersteen was THE subwoofer for high-performance music systems (unless you don't mind making David Wilson even more un-Godly wealthy

), and is still a fine choice, as long as these two provisos are met: 1- The group delay endemic to ported enclosures does not bother you; 2- You aren't sold on the virtues of Servo-Feedback subwoofers (guess you have yet to hear the Rythmik

). Lest I appear rabidly pro-sealed sub, if not Servo, versus any other design, let me state that the Rythmik/GR Research OB Servo Sub may be, in some applications, even better than the sealed Rythmik. You really should hear both.

glynnw · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Jul 2014, 02:30 pm »

Sorry - I live in Louisiana and the Bagends are not for sale at this time. I used to work for Telarc records and when they played back one of their recordings of western sounds (such as horses galloping) over their reference system, it felt like the ground was shaking at times. I have never been able to duplicate that on my home system.

geowak · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Jul 2014, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: bdp24 on 5 Jul 2014, 07:16 am

For what it's worth: The Rythmik Servo Subwoofer plate amp also will take it's signal from the main power amp's speaker terminals, though Peter Ding makes no claim that by doing so his sub is unique or innovative; at least, not for that reason. That capability is, in fact, quite common. Before the Rythmik, the Vandersteen was THE subwoofer for high-performance music systems (unless you don't mind making David Wilson even more un-Godly wealthy ), and is still a fine choice, as long as these two provisos are met: 1- The group delay endemic to ported enclosures does not bother you; 2- You aren't sold on the virtues of Servo-Feedback subwoofers (guess you have yet to hear the Rythmik ). Lest I appear rabidly pro-sealed sub, if not Servo, versus any other design, let me state that the Rythmik/GR Research OB Servo Sub may be, in some applications, even better than the sealed Rythmik. You really should hear both.

Are you saying the Rythmik subs are the ones to get for music. Best for stereo integration? One or two? Your thoughts?

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Jul 2014, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: glynnw on 5 Jul 2014, 02:30 pm

Sorry - I live in Louisiana and the Bagends are not for sale at this time. I used to work for Telarc records and when they played back one of their recordings of western sounds (such as horses galloping) over their reference system, it felt like the ground was shaking at times. I have never been able to duplicate that on my home system.

I guess you've tried a corner location for at least one? Bag Ends (with the ELF or the "infra system") are supposed to be flat down to 8Hz, so I'm guessing the limitation must be your positioning of the subs - that or you don't have the D speaker Core Duo set up to match the characteristics of the Bag end processors which, as you probably know, include a rising response from system resonance on down, plus a steep infra-sonic roll-off.
Informative discussion of Bag End subs here: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=1129.0

geowak · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Jul 2014, 12:01 pm »

Just ordered two F12Gs (sealed subs with servo drive and GR Research drivers) from Rythmik. This will be to enhance my stereo speakers -low to med low- freq duties. Will I be happy?

rockadanny · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Jul 2014, 01:48 pm »

Cannot speak for you but when i added one sub it was an obvious improvement.
Adding a second sub took my system to world class level IMO.
It was that big of improvement. But that was in my room, not yours.

jtwrace · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Jul 2014, 01:49 pm »

Quote from: geowak on 2 Jul 2014, 11:20 pm

Got a chance to get some musical servo sealed subs. So I wondered, from the AC crowd, "are any of you using dual sealed subs to get that lower tight bass....successfully?"

I use 4 subs. The only proper way to do it.

jk@home · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Jul 2014, 12:30 pm »

Quote from: geowak on 12 Jul 2014, 12:01 pm

Just ordered two F12Gs (sealed subs with servo drive and GR Research drivers) from Rythmik. This will be to enhance my stereo speakers -low to med low- freq duties. Will I be happy?

Well, low bass is from 0-80 Hz., midbass 80-150 Hz. 80Hz. and below is usually not locatable (unless you are real close to the sub). If your speakers need more mid bass punch, then IMHO, you need to locate them as close to the mains as possible, and go higher than 80hz. High passing your mains may also help.

Right now running my mid bass subs at 90Hz. cut off, but that could change when all things I have going on are done.

AFAIK, Rythmik limits his servo driver / amp combo to a certain high frequency range, not sure about the ones you bought. The non-servo drivers I bought from him (quite a few years ago, discontinued now) go slightly higher than the equivalent servo model he sold at the time.

Anyway, will you be happy?...set them up and tell us!